Early Wooden Propellers

[Maui]

I recently purchased two propellers from the estate of a friend who passed away last year. These were purchased in Springfield, Massachusetts. One of these is just under three feet long, and can be seen in the attached photographs. There is a note that was wrapped around the prop that reads, "Prop for 1910 Weiss engine - made in CT". The numbers that are on this prop can be seen in the second photograph. It looks like they read "ND44" and below this is "J5115". The propeller appears to be in pristine condition. Do any of the members of this forum know what airplane it might have been used on?

The second propeller appears in the other photographs. It is just under seven feet in length, and really looks like it's in very good shape too, but not as pristine as the other prop. The hub has 8 mounting holes, and is tapered in shape. The front side of the hub measures about 10.5" in diameter, and the backside about 15.375" diameter. There are some markings on the prop, but they are difficult to read. In the attached photograph where the markings are indicated it reads "102-64", and there are some other markings below this that are difficult to make out. There are also some markings on the back side of the hub, but they too are difficult to read. I can post some additional photographs that show these markings if anyone thinks that it will help. I also have the mounting bracket that was used to attach this propeller to the airplane. But it doesn't have any markings on it that I could see. Do any of you know what airplane this prop may have been used on? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Maui

[Dave]

The markings on the second propeller suggest a diameter and pitch notation, similar to this Hartzell propeller. If that's the case the length would be 102" instead of the length you mentioned. If you look closely at the tips you may be able to determine if the tips have been shortened, which might also explain the absence of metal or fabric sheathing there. Something looks altered, but it's hard to tell from the photographs alone.

I do have a list of Hartzell propeller templates, and I can try to find that number, but in the meantime if you can post close ups of the tip area it might help provide more info.

I don't know about the first prop. It's too short to have powered a full size airplane of that time, but if it is actually from that era I don't know what it might have been used on. It certainly has a more "modern" look to it.

Addendum:

Click on the link above, then click on the data sheet on that page to enlarge it. (You may need to click again to enlarge the text.) You'll see one 102-64 propeller listed, for a Mercedes engine on an Aeromarine 39A Brock, whatever that was. There may, however, have been additional propellers made with that same diameter/pitch combination.

[Maui]

Additional Photographs

Thanks for the information. That Hartzell prop does look very similar to the one I have. I've attached a close-up of one of the tips. The other tip looks similar to this. I've also included a close-up of the markings on the prop. This is the best image I could provide. Tip to tip it measures 83.5 inches in diameter. If you can discern anything else from these close-ups, or if you would like me to provide some additional images let me know.

Maui

[Maui]

Other Images

And here's the other image that I wasn't able to upload before being logged out.

[Dave]

Well, it's clear that some of the sheathing has been removed. Can you take a picture of the tip end on? Sometimes you can tell from the appearance of the tip that the prop has been shortened.

[Dave]

My best guess is that the stamping below the legible one is NO 3650

[Maui]

Dave, you're right: 3650 is the number stamped on the back side of the hub. Based on the hub dimensions and the bolt circle spacing, it looks like this was made to fit on a Curtiss OX5 engine. And the most popular airplane to use that engine was the JN-4D Jenny. This might be a prop from a Jenny!

Maui

[Dave]

Maybe, but I don't recall seeing any OX5 powered Jennys with the integral propeller hub like that. Also, the diameter doesn't match the typical Jenny prop, which was usually 8' 3". If yours was originally 8' 6" it's a little too long and if it's now under 7 feet it's too short.

Remember, other engines had hub dimensions the same as the OX5 did. I think your prop is more likely from the twenties or thirties, and maybe even 40's, but that's just a guess.

[Maui]

I'd still be very interested if anyone could provide some information about what airplane the smaller propr could have been used on. I've attempted to find out what airplanes used the 1910 Weiss engine, but with no success so far.

Maui

[Dave]

I wouldn't even assume that it was necessarily on an airplane, and the hub design and its size suggest that it was more likely some other kind of industrial application for moving air.

[Maui]

Dave, can you tell me what other engines had the same hub dimensions as the Curtiss OX5? In the reference charts that I found by following the links on this site, there weren't any other engines listed that were even close.

Maui

[Dave]

I don't know offhand, but they are modern props (i.e. post WW1), and there may be several hubs that were interchangeable. I may be able to retrieve some of that information, but wouldn't get to it right away. I think that in all likelihood your propeller is a post WW1 model, however.

[Motorace]

Could that first prop have been on a windmill? The attachment method doesn't look strong enough to be used on any kind of high-stress or high-horsepower application.

[Dave]

That's certainly one possibility, although I'd expect a windmill prop to be a little larger. It's clearly more likely to be industrial use rather than aircraft, at least any kind of standard airplane.