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Hartzell prop? Damaged in 1925

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  • Hartzell prop? Damaged in 1925

    I am on a bit of a quest to learn more information about an antique wooden propeller with a special story and I sincerely hope someone here could be of some assistance. Could you help me confirm whether the propeller described below is a Hartzell, and if so, provide any additional information?

    Said propeller has been passed down from my grandfather to my father to me and I have been trying to learn more about its background. I believe it may be a Hartzell, drawing no. 586 (originally for the Liberty 12 600 hp. engine on a Douglas World Cruiser) based on the "586" stamp.

    The story I have been told is that Mr. Basil York, a pilot for the Aluminum Company of America (Alcoa) nicked the propeller upon a landing in 1925 (you can see the minor symmetrical damage in the photos) and was stranded for a few days until a replacement could be driven to Alcoa’s plant in Bauxite, Arkansas. During this time, he stayed with my grandfather and is how he ended up with the souvenir. I have done some research on Mr. York and later in life, he was a flying instructor for many of the Army's early pilots training in Pine Bluff, Arkansas for WWII and Korea. He is mentioned in the book Burning the Days by James Salter:
    In winter 1944, [Salter] and other cadets took a physical examination ...to see who would qualify for pilot training… The following spring, he was sent to flight training. He wound up in Pine Bluff, Ark., where he was taught to fly by "an ancient, perhaps in his forties, crop duster . . . His name was Basil York."
    It is a bit of a family mystery. My father was a private pilot and treasured this propeller. I would love to be able to confirm its origins and ideally identify the type of plane on which it was likely used. I have done much searching online, looking for similar photos and cannot find one with the right shape and cladding. I'm assuming by the bolt holes that it may have been re-drilled to fit a different engine than its original, but that's a guess on my part.
    Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
    Pics:






    Thanks!

  • #2
    It doesn't look like a Liberty engine propeller to me, and it's obviously been overdrilled, presumably for use on a different hub at some point.

    The first step to resolve this is to measure the distance between hole centers (bolt hole circle diameter). Also, what is the length of the propeller from tip to tip? It looks similar to a prop for a Hall Scott A 7 A engine, but you can't tell much without measurements.

    Most of the Hartzell props produced around WW1 were walnut. This one appears to be oak.
    Dave

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    • #3
      Thanks again, Dave.

      The propeller dimensions are:
      Bolt hole circle diameter: 6" (5 1/4" for the apparently over-drilled set)
      Propeller length: 8' (right at 96")
      Prop. thickness: 4 1/4"
      Center hole diameter: 2 3/4"

      Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

      -J.R.

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      • #4
        It's definitely NOT a Liberty engine propeller.

        The pictures are not on line at the moment, and I don't remember what it looked like but those bolt circles are in fact consistent with both a Hall Scott A7A as well as an OX5 engine, so I'm guessing it was made for the Hall Scott and subsequently drilled to put on an OX5 (although it could be the other way around).
        Dave

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        • #5
          Thanks so much for the help. With your assistance, I have been able to exactly pin down the history of this propeller.

          After some more careful examination, I discovered a very faint "A7A" stamped into the prop in a triangular pattern. Then today, I tracked down a copy of the old Commerce Dept's list of aircraft accidents from 1929 in a local library which confirmed the pilot's name and the location of the crash as well as gave me the info that he was flying a Command-Aire 3C3 powered by and OX-5 engine.

          So unless I'm missing something, I feel pretty confident that the propeller was originally built for an A7A before being over-drilled to fit this Command-Aire 3C3's OX-5 engine.

          Thanks again,
          J.R.

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          • #6
            That all sounds very plausible to me, and the A7A stamping probably nails it down.
            Dave

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            • #7
              I have a similar prop, found in Arkansas originally. Mine only has eight mounting bolt holes, and a 2.75 inch center bore. Marked A7A and with an SC serial number. Has the 5 8 6 mark. I will post pics in the near future

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