identification RATIER propeller

[catalin988]

Please help me identify a propeller that I inherited from my grandparents. I would like to find out as much information as possible and even if someone is interested in it or how much it is worth. Thank you very much !

[Dbahnson]

This should be a good one for pmdec, the expert here on French propellers.

I do know that the "Tonkilaque" decal relates to the lacquering process used to protect the surface, so I'm guessing the blade dates to the WW1 era.

[pmdec]

Hi,

Yes I have some infos about Ratier propellers but to have only half of the markings could be made the identification difficult...

- The kind of Ratier decal it shows was first used in the 30', but it may have been replaced (it seems the prop has been re-lacquered),
- The SELT decal have been in use from 1919 to the end of the 40's, so it doesn't give anything,
- The "round" shape of the blade could be from the 20's or the 30's,
- The markings are part of aircraft model and engine type. The fact that the power is given in "CV" tells that the prop is later than 1922,
- It was made for a ??? type C1 (one seat military warbird) using a ?50 HP engine. With some other pics and dimensions, the prop could be identifiable...

To go farther, you have to measure exactly:
- the overall length,
- the blade width (largest place),
- the hub thickness (not the diameter, the thickness),
and show a picture of the three other side of the hub, with all the markings legible.

Regards,
PM

[catalin988]

Additional information

Here is the additional information that you asked! Can you offer me other details about the propeller?

[pmdec]

Here is the additional information that you asked! Can you offer me other details about the propeller?

Ok, thank you for the additional pics and the measures. But I need two more:
- I have to read the numbers on the flat side (there are three numbers, 1 or 2 digits each), and I have to see them to know about when the pro was made, so please post a closeup of this side,
- I have also to look at the opposite side of the one you posted: the remainings of the markings could be enough to completly identified the prop.

Regards,
PM

[catalin988]

This is a photo to the other side

[pmdec]

This is a photo to the other side

Hi,

The flat side shows the remains of two kind of markings:
- The "16 C" is the day the prop was glued. Missing markings are month and year: the global stamping is "DD C MM C YY" but MM and YY were on the missing half... So, it is not possible to know when the prop was made.
- the "?5" are the last two digits of the prop number. I can't search all the props made by Ratier for a "?61 C1" type aircraft because I can't read the thousands of archives pages only to find it could not be enough to choose which one it is.

So, I need a picture of the opposite to the second pic of this post: It has to show partial markings but possibly enough to choose between all 2m65 long props for type ?61 C1 aircraft fitted with a ?50 HP engine type ?EW.

Ratier made more than one thousand different wooden props ...

Regards,
PM

[pmdec]

Hi,

Some more infos about this prop from the pics showed by catalin988:

The prop is a right handed tractive 265 cm long with 280 mm blade width. The hub is a "D" type, which was used in France in the 20's for more than 30 to 500 HP engines.
So the power marking could be 350 OR 450 CV (the first digit is missing) but sometimes the marking is not exactly what the engine could "give". So we have to be cautious, and for the measures also.

If we consider the prop is:
- tractive right handed,
- between 260 and 270 cm long,
- with a blade width from 265 to 285 mm,
- used with an engine between 305 and 500 HP.
There are 42 suitable Ratier props but only 19 used on "C1" aircraft and among those 19 it remains 4 used with a "type 61": serials 245, 294, 326 and 450. So, more info is needed to find the right serial. The markings on the opposite sides of the hub of the two already showed could makes the difference. Finding the right serial will give the right aircraft!

Regards,
PM

[Bob Gardner]

Pierre-Michel,

It is a delight to read (and explore) your erudite reply.

With kind regards,

Bob G

[Dbahnson]

Pierre-Michel,

It is a delight to read (and explore) your erudite reply.

With kind regards,

Bob G

Ditto.

Thanks, PM!