Crashed prop WWII ?

[Sprockets]

As a brand new member, I am submitting a request for identification of a variable pitch prop acquired a couple of years ago. There are no identification marks, the thing is heavy (100+ pounds according to the strain on my gizzard when lifting the prop), and the blades are plywood laminations which were fabric covered. It is purported to be from a Mk 1 Spitfire that crashed near Dover, England, August 1940 during the Battle of Britain. To date, I have not been able to confirm or deny its heritage. Any thoughts??

Crashed propeller 1 (2).jpg

Crashed propeller 2 (2).jpg

Crashed propeller 5 (2).jpg

Crashed propeller 6 (2).jpg

[Dave]

My only thought is very generic - that many, many propellers come with assertions that they came from some recognizable aircraft without any creditable source of that information. I think to identify what you have there would require comparison of the hub to a known hub of a Spitfire and even then would need to exclude other aircraft that may have used an identical style hub. You would really need a curator or other expert in the field to be able to do that.

[Sprockets]

Thanks Dave, that's why I am here. This site was recommended by the curator of the aircraft museum in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. I tried to find info on Mk1 Spit props to no avail. All that showed was that they had 2 blade props but no views of the hub nor structural aspects of their props.

I realize that confirmation of its specific heritage may be all but impossible. However, information pertaining to its age, manufacture, and application(s) would be vastly appreciated. And where, other than this site, am I likely to run into the appropriate SME (Subject Matter Expert)??

[Dave]

I'd try Monte Chase at www.notplanejane.com. He has an impressive collection of variable pitch propellers (although most are from the U.S. as I recall) and may know a good way to go about researching yours.

We just don't have much on controllable pitch props here.

[Sprockets]

Again Dave, thanks. Will endeavour to contact Monte. In the mean time, you can always include my prop in your photo archive - we can fill in information if and when it becomes available.

With a bit of luck, someone will spot this on your site and pass along volumes of applicable detail. At least, that is what I'm hoping for.

[pmdec]

Hi,

May be, IMHO, it is not an in flight variable pitch propeller, perhaps only "on ground adjustable", as there is not much space for control system, and the picture 2375 seems to show that the blade is secure to the hub. But in this case, what is the use of the "bell" in front of the hub? And there is also an inner part (engine side) I can't explain if it is not an in flight variable pitch prop. So... ???

About this kind of blade construction, some interesting stuff there: http://www.enginehistory.org/Propell...ol/rotol.shtml . I am not telling it is a Rotol, and other brands made props like that (in Germany, for example).

Regards,
PM

[Sprockets]

Hello PM,

Good lead - this hub most resembles Rotol 2 Blade. However, the housing shape is different.

Have attached 2 photos of the engine side of the hub which show 2 passages for perhaps oil or some other fluid that could be provided through the prop shaft. The other photo shows more of the variable part of a blade along with a remanent of the fabric covering (looks to be at least 2 layers).

Do you have any links for the German props that you suggested??

Crashed propeller 3 (2).jpg

Crashed propeller 9 (2).jpg

Crashed propeller 4 (2).jpg

[pmdec]

Hi,

Your last pics show that my guess was wrong: it has to be an in flight variable pitch prop. The central part has to be an hydraulic pipe.

Sorry about links, but I am a nut about German language and for technical texts Google Translate is not very reliable.

About the blade "cover", I think it is painted fiberglass.

Perhaps you have to look in patents area (I found this PDF link to Schwarz, but it is not your hub: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2107785.html ) and may be you will find a drawing of your hub...

Good luck!
PM

[Sprockets]

Hi PM,

Thanks once again. Have looked at your suggestions and a couple of related areas. This prop hub somewhat resembles the Rotol and also the Aero Products, but no cigar for either.

Guess I'll just keep poking around - perhaps the answer will appear.

Sprockets.

[Sprockets]

The answer - - -

Hi all,

Well, a reasonable answer appeared through another source - The Avaition Forum through www.keypublishing.com, a British interest.

Turns out that the feeling is that the hub is a Hoover Hydraulic P42F300 (made right here in Canada by Singer Manufacturing) and most probably fitted with Erco Dwg 3098-A blades. Its application was most likely the Canadian made MkV Anson with 450hp Prat & Whitney R-985-AN-12B engines. Alternatively, there is a possibility that the prop could have been on a Fleet 60 Fort Trainer.

And Dave, a pat on the back for you!! Though the answer came from England, the material source was NotPlaneJane as you suggested. I just had not made it there with a query.

So, phooey on the Battle of Britain - the blamed thing probably fell out of the sky right here in Canada.

Thanks everyone for your interest! I'll be back with more stuff from my pile of junk.

Peter aka Sprockets.

[pmdec]

Hi Peter,

Many thanks for following, it's not so common!

Regards,
PM