Lang Propellers of America

[Bob Gardner]

This note is addressed to everyone who reads it!

I am just finishing a book on Lang Propellers and I only have two poor photographs of the Lang of America decals. There were two types. If you have an in-focus high-resolution photo of a decal I would be most grateful for a copy, sent to my e-mail address which is aeroclocks at btinternet dot com.
Similarly, if you have an American Lang prop, I would much appreciate details.

I had always thought that the Lang Prop Co of America was a subsidiary of the English company but it transpires that in April 1917 the USN asked the British Royal Navy for assistance in building aircraft props. Henry Watts of the Air Dept of the Admiralty was despatched to the USN for some months and was instrumental in bringing Dashwood Lang to the States where the USN built a factory for him at Whitestone on Long Island. He became a principal maker for the USN and logic would suggest that he only made props for the USN.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Dave]

Hi Bob,

One of those two poor photographs might be the one from the web site. A few years ago I Photoshop repaired parts of it for someone who wanted to make a custom reproduction. See the attachment. I frankly can't tell what I did to it.

If that works, let me know and I'll send it along. It's a 5 MB file.

Dave

[Bob Gardner]

Thanks Dave,

This decal looks better than either of mine. I'd be most grateful if you could e-mail the file to me. This is the first Lang America decal which dates from later than August 1917. It was replaced by one which carried the name of the Whitestone LI factory.

Can any other of our readers help?

With kind regards,

Bob

[Dave]

It's on its way across the ocean...

[Brett Robb]

Hello, Bob and Dave I have what I believe is probably an early Lang of America propeller for an OX5 engine as it states 90 H.P. Curtiss. If I had to guess I would say it was for a Jenny. It appears to be in real nice original condition. I will have to dig it out from where it is wrapped up and stored in the house. That may take a day or two, it has been awhile since I have looked at it, but I remember it had a nice solid decal on it that looks just like the one Dave has already posted. It is also loaded with information stamped on it.

I've been meaning to post it for awhile now as I have always been curious to learn more about it. And since you asked now would seem to be the right time. Thanks for the forum and the effort you both put into it, this is a very interesting site to visit.

Brett Robb

These are a couple of links to Googles Patent search related to Dashwood Lang.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=evt...peller&f=false

http://www.google.com/patents?id=F39...20LANG&f=false

[Bob Gardner]

Hello Brett,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your kind words.

I would be delighted to see photographs of your Lang of America prop. I only have details of three so far. Could you send me photos of the complete prop, of the data and the decal? It would be a great help. And may I use them in my book? Photos need to be at a high resolution and in focus. This might sound a bit obvious and I apologise for emphasising it, but the majority of photos that people send me are below par.

I think that there are many others out there who are teetering on the edge of joining us. Often when I sign on I note that there is one member viewing (me) and thirteen guests. If so come on in and join us. The water's fine! We only exist to converse with others who like early props and to learn from each other and we'd like to hear from you.

With kind regards to everyone,

Bob

[Bob Gardner]

Dave,

Many thanks for the photograph. It's excellent and I plan to use it as a full page illustration.

If anyone else out there has a Lang of America prop please tell me about it. I'd like to know more about this American venture by an English company.

With thanks,

Bob

[Brett Robb]

Hello, here is the information stamped on my Lang of America Propeller. Lang Propeller No.244 Right Hand Dia. 2.500 Pitch 1.450 Dr. No. 902. 90 H.P. Curtiss. A.I.D C.2 C.A. LTD 78 4928 L. 254 A.J. Edmond or possibly Edmonds. The prop appears to be in original condition you can see the damage to the one tip and a compression ring on the back of the hub from it being used. I believe it is made from mahogany and is 8 feet 3 inches in length. The pictures that show it darker in color are closer to its true color, it does not show any signs of ever having fabric or metal tips. I have created a site with pictures of the prop that can be found here.

http://imageevent.com/greatlakes/langofamericaprop

I had the pleasure of meeting the gentleman whose estate auction I purchased it from 12 years prior to his death, he was quite a character with many stories to tell and had his own interesting history and associations in aviation, including dragging Amelia Earhart into the air in an experimental glider with his brothers on the families farm. His families history and his (Graham Smith Bodwell) can be found here.

http://home.earthlink.net/~bbodwell/.../Oswald883.htm

Thanks
Brett Robb

[Bob Gardner]

Good Morning Brett,

Thank you for your excellent photographs and for your permission to use them in my book on British WW1 props. The book covers 123 British makers and includes the few who made props for America. Dashwood Lang was the pre-eminent maker of British props and was persuaded to set up a new company in America by the Royal Navy to whom the USN turned for advice on how to mass produce props on America's entry into WW1 in 1917.

The book is about 500 pages long so I have decided to publish it in about twelve installments of 35-40 pages each. Most will describe several makers but the draft on Lang runs to about 45 pages and will be published as a monograph. I'll send you the bit on Lang of America. Please let me know your e-mail address.

Your prop is the classic shape of a British Lang prop. It was in use in Britain from 1913 to 1918. But I don't think he used this shape much in America. The 90hp Curtiss engine is probably the OX2. And this and the diameter and pitch suggest that the prop is from a JN3 or JN4.

The decal is in beautiful condition. It's the first type and post-dates the incorporation of Lang of America in August 1917 and pre-dates the opening of the Whitestone factory in Long Island which I think was at the end of 1917.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Bob Gardner]

Brett,

More info on your prop. It was made in Canada by the Canadian Aeroplane Co. And the letters AID C2 are the airworthiness stamp of the Canadian Aeroplane Inspection Department.

Canadian Aeroplanes Limited was formed on 15 December 1916 to build training aircraft for the RFC Canada training program. It took over the Toronto business of Curtiss Aeroplanes and Motors Co. A new larger factory was built to use modern mass production techniques.

The main aircraft built was the Curtiss JN-4. The prototype JN-4 (Can) was flown on 1 January 1917. Following extensive tests, it was delivered to the RFC on 22 February 1917. A total of 1,200 were built, many of which were exported to the United States following their entry into the war.

My guess is that the prop was made by Mr AJ Edmonds. It was a characteristic of some coachbuilders and cabinet makers at this time to allow craftsmen to sign their work in this way.

It would seem that Dashwood Lang sub-contracted the manufacture of props after his company was formed in August 1917 and before the USN finished building his factory for him late in 1917. The practice of sub-contracting to other makers was common in Britain at this time, where Lang had just come from.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Brett Robb]

Hello, Bob I would appreciate the information you have on Lang of America that you have offered when you finish it. When I read your first thoughts of the prop and how you felt it was probably early in his American production I took the time to reread The Google book version of Aircraft Production Hearings Before the Subcommittee of the Committee on Military Affairs United States Senate in reference to A.A.D. Langs statement before that committee in 1917. In which he states he produced a few samples and then 200 propellers for Canadian Airplanes Ltd. While he was experimenting and training the men in New York on Long Island preparing for the time he imagined he we need to ramp up production. This was before he had ever produced any propellers for the U.S. Government. Since they seemed to have originally pushed him and his skills aside when he arrived in the U.S.

And I had wondered since my prop shows no U.S. Signal Corps markings, but does show the markings C.A. LTD. 78 for I assumed Canadian Airplanes Ltd. Does it seem likely my prop could be one of that first lot produced In New York. He also seems prepared at that point to work filling only orders for the U.S. if they were prepared to use his services. I imagine you have already read this but just in case you have not here is a link to that statement I found it very interesting. This link comes up in slightly the wrong place for some reason on page 829 you need to scroll up to the bottom of page 827 to read his full statement.

http://books.google.com/books?id=bGC...ellers&f=false

Thanks
Brett

[Brett Robb]

I also found this book on Aviation in Canada 1917-1918 which is very interesting and profusely illustrated with many great photographs on the subject.

http://books.google.com/books?id=IbI...age&q=&f=false

Thanks Again
Brett

[Rob Purcell]

I. D. Lang Prop.

Good Morning from Sunny Florida,

Having read some of your comments I am certain you have the expertise to advise me on the History of my Propeller.
I own a beautiful Lang No.3926 which I've had for over 40 + years. It is well marked and i'm curious to learn what Aircraft it was used on. I have done a little research which has peaked my interest further. I long thought it was used on a JN4,...but it is L.H. and most probably from one of Curtiss designs, i.e., 1911 Hydroaeroplane (seaplane) flown in San Diego or Curtiss-Ely Pusher flown from a Ship in 1913 ? What ever ; here are the Stampings:

Lang Propeller No.3926, Pitch 1.360 , Curtiss OXX , L.74 L. H. Dia.2489 Dr.No.3
Also a another number N-3808. Note: "N numbers" today are aircraft registration numbers ?
I admit to some confusion on how to use the Forum. Please let me know if this is how questions / inquiries are handled.
Your willingness to provide me whatever information you can is appreciated.
Thanks, Rob

[Bob Gardner]

Good Morning Rob,

Welcome to the forum.

Your prop was made for the USN in late 1917. This engine was used on two flying boats;
the Curtiss Model F;
and the Curtiss ND trainer, which was the Curtiss Jenny, mounted on a single float.

With kind regards,

Bob