Looking for information on 2.3m Heine Propellor

[Bart_48]

Hi,

I've been the lucky owner of a Heine propeller for over 30 years. In the early seventies I bought it from someone who was cleaning his father's garage. Classic story I guess. The only thing I know about it is that it's from WW1. But now I'd like to know more on the type of aircraft it was used for. That's when I discovered this forum and I hope someone here can assist me with this.

The propeller is in pristine shape, is about 2.3 meters in diameter (10-11 feet), has a large center hole and 8 smaller holes.

Besides the Heine markings on the blades, there are only two other stamps:
"Stand 1150"
"Gepruft FLZ"

Check out the two pictures my son made:
http://www.regel1.com/gfx/propellor1.jpg
http://www.regel1.com/gfx/propellor2.jpg

Any help or advise would be appreciated! Thanks.

Best regards,

Bart
The Netherlands

[Bob Gardner]

Hello Bart,

Your prop dates from 1917 to 1918 indicated by the gepruft mark (tested) and FLZ which was the Fluzeugmeisterei, which didn't exist until 1917.

The length at 2300mm is probably too short; has the prop lost some wood from one or both tips? The shortest Heine prop at this time that I know of would be 2600mm and most are around 2800mm.

There should be markings on one side of the hub which will state something like;

1 6 0 ps
Mercedes
D 280
ST 180 (sometimes H 180 on late 1918 props)
H E I N E
29323

If you can tell me what they are I might be able to tell you more.

With regards,

Bob

[abufletcher]

A plus, from my perspective, is the mark left from the prop boss. This is the classic Mercedes shape.

[Bob Gardner]

Hi Don,

That's an aspect I haven't got round to, hub plates.

With this prop, I believe it is from a rotary engine. I have the handbook on propellers published in 1916 by the Luftschraube-Abteilung der Prüfanstalt und Werft at Aldershof. It has tables of prop data for each maker for each type of engine. The test speed of 1160rpm for a Heine prop (STAND 1160) indicates a 100ps rotary engine. The prop in question is post 1917 so would have been for the 110ps engine with slightly different parameters; hence STAND 1150. The diameter in 1916 was 2450 to 2500mm. By 1918 this had grown to 2500-2600mm.

For the 160ps Mercedes engine the STAND was 1280 to 1390rpm with a diameter of 2730 to 2800mm.

Having committed myself, I await more information from Bart with some trepidation !

Mit freundlichen Grüßen (as we say in Yorkshire, England)

Bob

[Bart_48]

Additional information on the markings

Thanks for the information so far!

Indeed I forgot to mention the markings on the side. They read:

100PS (the "P" looks like a double P)
GNO_M
D250
ST220
HEINE
N13107

And below these marking is some kind of stamp. I will see if I can make a picture of all these markings.

But do these markings already point to a certain type of aircraft?

Regards,

Bart

[Bob Gardner]

Hallo Bart,

Dank u voor uw antwoord.

Your prop is most interesting and dates from early 1917, judging by the serial number. It is from a rotary engine, a French engine, the 100ps Gnome that was used by the German Air Corps. The diameter was 2500mm. This engine was used by Fokker on the Fokker E type in 80ps form but later in the E III in 100ps form.

I would much appreciate a high resoloution photo of the prop and the hub markings that I can use in my book on German props, with your permission. Please e-mail them to me using the link bottom left of this post.

With regards,

Bob

[Bob Gardner]

Bart,

Postscript; the stamp under the data gives Heine's address

Waidmannslust, O (for Ost) Berlin

Bob

[Bob Gardner]

The French Gnome engine was copied by Oberusel but apparently still called a Gnome, although its designation was U I

Bob

[abufletcher]

Here are a couple of photos of the prop on the EIII replica at the San Diego Aerospace Museum. I believe the prop is a replica as well, but have no further information on it.

Note the shape for the hub plate.

[abufletcher]

Is that the back side of the prop in Bart's photo?

[Bob Gardner]

Good photographs Don.

For other forumites, the design of this prop is by Integrale, identifiable by the dead straight trailing edge, which goes in a straight line from one tip to the other. Most Fokker E III's appear to have Integrale props, made by the German subsidiary Integral Propeller Werke, who were nationalised when the war started and hence became completely separated from the parent company in France.

With regards,

Bob

[abufletcher]

I was curious about that. I didn't see any identifying stamps on the prop at the SD museum so that's why I assume it is a replica. I'm also assuming that Integral must have made a whole line of props with varying design specifics to suit different engines -- but perhaps kept a kind of "signature style" such as the straight trailing edge.

On the Integral propeller I modeled, the striations in the wood layers were more curved on the forward face. However on the museum prop the striations where more or less straight (as on the back side of my prop). This obviouisly shows that the surfaces were carved differently.

BTW, the museum staff told me that the difference between a replica and a reproduction is that officially to be a "reproduction" there has to be at least one builder with experience working on the original aircraft.

[Bart_48]

Hi all, and especially Bob,

Thank you for all the usefull information on my prop!

My son made another picture of the details on the side: http://www.regel1.com/gfx/propellor3.jpg
But it probably isn't needed anymore for the identification.

Bob, it would be my pleasure to contribute to your book by supplying high resolution photographs. I'll contact you by e-mail.

Regards,

Bart

[Bob Gardner]

Thanks Bart,

I look forward to it.

With regards,

Bob