Albatros CI propeller

[abufletcher]

I'm going to be carving a static display prop for a 1/6 scale Albatros CI and I'm looking for an accurate outline.

I'd also appreciate any info on the prop diameter.

[abufletcher]

What I mainly need at this point is a diameter. I've seen the prop for a LVG VI (with 200hp engine) listed at 2.88m. But a rough estimate from the datafile drawings put it at about 8 feet (2.44m).

This would have been on a 160hp Benz or Mercedes.

[abufletcher]

To add a bit more information, looking at the photos in the Albatros CI datafile, it's clear that several different propeller types were used over the considerable service life of the CI.

One type had offset paddle-like blades with rounded tips. The leading and trailing edges were relatively straight. The propeller has a uniformly dark color. Of the photos in the woodenpropeller.com collection, it looks most like the Bleriot XI (normale) -- but with rounded tips. The blades may also be a bit wider and a bit more offset.

The other type seen in the photos has a curved leading edge and appears much more like the Sopwith Snipe propeller, or perhaps the Bristol F2b propeller. One particularly nice photo in the datafile shows this type made of 5 laminations (dark, light, dark, light, dark) with the german cross decal.

[Bob Gardner]

Hi,

I have no data on the prop for the CI. As a generalisation German props were made for engines and types of aircraft, rather than for specific aircraft. Therefore, props from other C class aircraft will provide a guide to the diameter you need.

Props for the 150hp and 160hp Mercedes engine, which was the most common engine used in early C types, were generally between 2500mm and 2730mm in diameter. Props would have come from different makers. At this time, 1915 to 1917, German makers made props that were very individual in shape.

If you find any specific diameters for German props, please let me know. I am currently writing vol 3 of my book on WW1 props which is about German props. Data is very scarce.

With regards,

Bob

[abufletcher]

Bob, thanks for the input. Based on measurements from the datafile drawings (if that means anything) the prop would be 2880 (6cm x 48, 9'5"). But then I assume that the diameter would vary with the prop design (primarily pitch).

[abufletcher]

I just looked more thoroughly through the datafile and found the illustration of the "baubeschreibung" ("build description") for the Albatros CIa (Bayische FlugzuegWerke Munchen) on p. 36. This includes information (in German) on the both the motor and propellor:

Motor
170 PS Argus
Brake efficiency Pi=180PS
n=1400

Propeller
Reschke Wood (Company)
Diameter 285cm
Blade width 28cm
Pitch 160
n=1400

This information does not appear to have been translated and included elsewhere in the datafile text.

Well, that's right in the ballpark of the measurement I took off the drawing. Once again I'm sure there was some variation in diameter between different propellor makes (and pitches). This is also the same diameter as the Heine propellor for the Conrad CIII on Bob's site so I feel comfortable saying that this is approximately correct for the propellor I'm modeling (with five laminations and the German cross decal).

[abufletcher]

Wow! I was just trying to find out what "Reschke" referred to (assuming it was a name) and came upon this German aircraft classified site where a guy states that he has a WWI-era wooden propeller from the Reschke company with the German Cross decal!

http://www.airventure.de/kleinanzeigen/index_u.html

I also found that the blade width given above almost exactly matches the propeller drawing I cobbled together in photoshop based on eyeballing the photo on p. 26 (of a laminated prop with the German Cross decal). How cool is that!

[abufletcher]

And a little more searching yielded this:

http://www.wwi-models.org/pipermail/...il/053448.html

http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Var...ops/index.html

[abufletcher]

Hmm...well, I now believe the the prop I'm trying to model is NOT a Reschke prop as the photo that I found of a Reschke prop appears to be the "paddle-shaped" one I describe above. Also the Reschke decal included a company logo with an R next to (below?) the German Cross.

So perhaps the prop I'm looking at is a Garuda.

[Bob Gardner]

Merry Christmas,

Here are photographs of a Reschke prop and decals.

With friendly Greetings!

[abufletcher]

Bob, thanks very VERY much! So when did you say that Vol. 3 book was coming out?

A Merry Christmas to you too from Southern Cal! BTW, I did my Ph.D. (D.Phil) degree at the University of York -- and took the opportunity to visit the Yorkshire Air Museum.

[Bob Gardner]

We live fairly close to York, between Doncaster and Selby, out in the country. In what did you do your D.Phil?

I still have a photo of a complete Reschke prop to send you, if I can remember where I filed it. Do you have any photographs of other decals? I am still trying to find a few for the book and also I need some photos of decals on props on aircraft.

Without wishing to sound particularly obtuse, volume 3 on German props will be published when I have finished it. The problem for an author is to know when it is finished. When I was finishing vol 2 on British WW1 props I was about two weeks from publishing it for about a five month period! I would conclude that it was good enough to publish only to find another snippet; and so on!

I have a chum who has been writing the definitive work on a particularly arcane subject for twenty years and is still gathering obscure facts. Most of us think he should have published ten years ago and then published a revised edition some years later. This is what I plan to do with my prop books, because publishing them brings out quite a lot more info.

So you see, the answer to your question is that I am about four weeks from finishing the book which therefore should be finished in the Autumn!

I am delighted to hear about the German fora you've found. Tomorrow's task is to trawl them and ask for info on my missing details on German props.

With regards,

Bob

[abufletcher]

[quote="Bob Gardner"]We live fairly close to York, between Doncaster and Selby, out in the country. In what did you do your D.Phil?
[quote]

My degree is in Communication Studies. I was making trips to York about twice a year (from Japan were I work). But not having a car I didn't have much chance to get out into the surrounding areas from York. I took a cab out to the Elvington air base and someone from the base kindly volunteered to give me a ride back into York.

I still have a photo of a complete Reschke prop to send you, if I can remember where I filed it.

I'd really appreciate that. If you prefer you can send it to my email address at dcarroll2@mac.com

Do you have any photographs of other decals?

Everything I now know about German propellers I've learned in the last 48 hours!

I have a chum who has been writing the definitive work on a particularly arcane subject for twenty years and is still gathering obscure facts.

As an academic I totally understand this! I've been working on the manuscript for a book for over two years now. Another leading researcher in my field just published his first book basically summarizing 40 years of research.

Like you say on your site, the nice thing about doing the books on CDROM is that you can provide upgrades.

I am delighted to hear about the German fora you've found. Tomorrow's task is to trawl them and ask for info on my missing details on German props.

I did send an email to the owner of the Reschke prop asking for info and photos. It's nice to actually get to use my German occassionally. I was a German major at university and then attended a German university for a year. But nowaday I don't get to practice it much (having lived "inzwischen" in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Mexico and now Japan). I was surprised to discover that the information in the "Baubeschreibung" in the CI datafile apparently had not been included in the text. I must admit though that while my conversational German is pretty good, reading technical engineering materials is a challenge. I have a pdf of an old Sportflug article on the Pfalz DIII describing the construction in great detail and that's pretty tough going.

BTW, in another (closed) thread there was some discussion of a propeller tip with some artwork on it that included the phrase "Ich will ein Boelcke werden." I would translate this as "I want to become a Boelcke."

[Bob Gardner]

Gutenmorgen,

Ich dachte, daß Sie Deutsches von der Weise sprechen konnten, die Sie die deutschen Website beschrieben. Das ist, warum ich eine vorhergehende E-mail 'mit freundlichen Grüßen' auf englisch beendete.

I could once speak colloquial German but no more. I am moderately able to read German script, sufficient to understand the basics, but it is a struggle and involves copious use of my dictionaries and translation devices such as Altavista.

When I find my photo of the Reschke prop I'll e-mail it to you.

With regards,

Bob

[abufletcher]

Gutenmorgen,

"Moin!" -- wie die Leute im Norden sagen! Ich wuntsche Ihnen eine Frohe Weihnachten und einen guten Rutsch ins Neue Jahr!

I could once speak colloquial German but no more. I am moderately able to read German script, sufficient to understand the basics, but it is a struggle and involves copious use of my dictionaries and translation devices such as Altavista.

Languages are sort of my occupation (I teach linguistics and second language acquisition) and in addition to German speak quite good Spanish (my wife is from Mexico) as well as some conversational Arabic, Japanese, Russian, Portuguese, and Danish. I can read German (and to a somewhat lesser degree, speak) fairly effortlessly, including the research literature in my speciality. But reading "engineering German" takes a lot of work.

BTW, I've recently come across an excellent online English/German-German-English dictionary that also includes technical vocabularly.

http://www.dict.cc/?s=propeller

When I find my photo of the Reschke prop I'll e-mail it to you.

It will be much appreciated. I've decided I'll do both one of the Reschke props, which seem to be very common on the CI's, as well as the other more curved "striped" prop that I'm still trying to identify. A closer examination of the photo with a loupe reveals a second white-ish circular decal. I believe this is probably the Germania decal. So if you also happen to have a photo of a 1916-17 era Germania prop (curved, light/dark laminations with offset blades) for the Mercedes or Benz engine that would be fantastic.

I'm only doing these up as static display props since the RC engines run at too high an RPM to use a scale diameter prop without a reduction drive system.

--Don