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**Dbahnson** · 03-03-2023, 11:23 AM

What are the numbers on the Gremont propeller? There were quite a few different models made, even for the same Caudron.

The Vickers propeller is far from "untouched". The hub has been cut out for a clock or similar display and the varnish has been removed except in the area of the decal. I think when Bob Gardner has been confused, that may be the end of the line as far a further identification goes . . .

**Gasqclark** · 03-03-2023, 12:04 PM

Apologies if I caused any offense, it certainly was not my intention. Prior to my post, I did a search on Vickers and Mr Gardner himself wrote that Vickers identification numbers on their props were sometimes ? confusing ?…
I take your point about the hub and yes it a pity that it had been butchered to accommodate a clock or barometer as it was so often the case.

Regarding my other properller, I based my limited research on the the photographs of the Caudron G4 exposed at the Smithsonian institute in Washington.DB4BFF9B-3AF8-4684-AEB8-8258D729CAC3.jpeg

**pmdec** · 03-04-2023, 05:21 AM

Hi,

The markings on the Gremont propeller are on each "lateral" sides of the prop. This prop is no more in original state that the Vickers: it has been clearly repainted as it is very visible by paint ON the edge of the decal. But it can be identified by the "lateral" markings excepted if the "restoration" has erased them.

Paint ON the decal:
Gremont_WP_post45905_cr_arrows.jpg

"Classical" markings on the sides of the hub:
GremontSerieSn?9864_FromIMGP1256.jpg
GremontSerieSn?9864_FromIMGP1258.jpg

Regards,
PM

**Gasqclark** · 03-04-2023, 05:42 AM

6AE41ECF-6643-4185-B103-898FFF10A1BE.jpeg

**Gasqclark** · 03-04-2023, 05:45 AM

E314AE61-E728-4FDD-8BDC-B1FFC31179F9.jpeg 471022EE-B572-4E9F-982B-EF4FCD040A5C.jpeg 57E3CD77-CACE-43DE-9D06-F0E2AB06EAC5.jpeg

**Gasqclark** · 03-04-2023, 05:50 AM

Good morning, thank you for your insight but respectfully I completely disagree with your assessment. This is very clearly the original paint, perhaps it doesn’t show on the pictures that I have first attached.
I have attached 2 photos on the markings on the hub confirming it came from a Caudron G4.

**pmdec** · 03-04-2023, 05:58 AM

Hi,

Whole sides needed for precise identification.

Could you confirm:
- on serial side: CT - 5028 -
- aircraft side: C G - 4 - 100 HP - A [and missing letter on the right]

On the serial side, it has to be another number (5 or 6 digits), and under it a letter and a digit on the left of a small square.

Regards,
PM

**Gasqclark** · 03-04-2023, 06:16 AM

I can only see :

G_G_4_100 HP_A_

G T _ 5028 _

There seem to be something after the 5028 but I am not able to read it.

**Gasqclark** · 03-04-2023, 06:22 AM

0ADE3C30-00A1-46B2-8225-74A503632725.jpeg I can read on this HELICE and PARIS but not the other characters

**pmdec** · 03-04-2023, 06:55 AM

Hi,

Your last pic shows the Gremont stamp. Two kinds existed, with address in Paris or address in Lyon, independently of what is written on the decal. Yours is a Paris one. The stamp reads HELICE GREMONT 6 PASSAGE JOSSEAUME with PARIS in the center:
GremontParis_FromIMGP9315.jpg
This place has changed a lot from when it was an artisan neighborhood: https://goo.gl/maps/bBqWRuoiSTL8yvQQ9 and https://goo.gl/maps/xrYn6L2F4xcPNQSH7

Please, post two clear pics of the whole "lateral" sides.

Regards,
PM

**Gasqclark** · 03-04-2023, 08:58 AM

Thank you very much again for your expert analysis and knowledge, I find it fascinating…
Unfortunately, I can’t see any other markings on the side of the hub and I am starting to believe that perhaps you were correct that this example had been repainted, perhaps a long time ago, perhaps it was stripped back to bare wood, serial numbers erased and then repainted. It looks to me that the decals were applied on top of the new paint. This could also explain why I couldn’t read the other character from the Paris address.

I will try to take some pictures again of the propeller outside to see I can decipher any other markings.

Many thanks again.

**pmdec** · 03-04-2023, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Gasqclark View Post

.../... It looks to me that the decals were applied on top of the new paint. .../...

No, your prop had been repainted keeping the decals on. It is clearly visible because some paint is ABOVE the decal:

FromWP_image_10776.jpg
- in the left white circle, the black filet around the wing tip is missing,
- in the right circle, some burgundy paint have been washed out the decal but there are some remains on it.

Take a magnifier, you will see that. For comparison, two pics of the same place of Gremont decals:

GremontDecalFromIMGP9276&9304_arr.jpg

On old props with original varnish (it is not paint, it is French polish varnish), the varnish is always at least a little grainy.

Regards,
PM

**Dbahnson** · 03-04-2023, 07:05 PM

Thank you, Pierre-Michel. Your depth of observation continues to amaze me, as does your collection of illustrations to demonstrate your conclusions.

My own analysis stops at something like, "Well, this surface just LOOKS like fresh paint", and I'm quite sure that your evaluation is correct.

**Gasqclark** · 03-05-2023, 06:32 AM

Thank you indeed Pierre-Michel, your analysis and comments have help me immensely to find out more about my prop and you have been immensely more helpful than Dbanson which on the other end I have found quite hostile. I get it, Dbanson, you don’t like them and that is perfectly fine with me. I have been flying for over 35 years, I am just an airline pilot who collect all form of aviation art and was seeking expert information from this website.

Cordiallement,

Edouard Gasquet

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