Help with ID for Kurt Fliegel Prop

[SFree]

Greetings propeller and aviation community. I have 4 of Gardners books but, sadly, I am missing the book (5?) that details Kurt Fliegel of Potsdam Germany who manufactured this splendid prop. I'm looking for some information that may identify the year of the prop and the type of plane that it lifted about. The length is over 9 feet and the markings identify it as a propeller for a PS160 Mercedes DIII engine. Problematically, this is all too common for many C type aircraft including any number of Albatros up to and including a Fokker D7. From what I could find without book 5, Gardner thought that KF was making propellers from 1916 through 1918 though he only confirmed 1918 which is consistent with the Fokker. I have seen, and included, some info that notes this propeller for the Fokker D7 and have seen some reproductions with the sheathing on that same plane. The propeller has a few bullet holes in it so it saw some action. Any assistance would be appreciated.

[Sparrow]

I haven't all my Bob Gardner's books at hand now but he published 4 printed books on German propellers. So if you have four you have all of them. Earlier he published two books as pdf documents:
WWI AIRCRAFT PROPELLERS
Volume Three
The German Propeller Industry 1914-1918

and
WWI AIRCRAFT PROPELLERS
Volume Four, Part One
German WWI Aircraft Propellers.

The second book covered German manufacturers from AdAstra to Eta.

Bob Gardner kindly sent me working copy of Volume Four part 2 which covers also Kurt Fliegel propellers. The very interesting fact is that I found there 7 photos of Your propeller.
Below there is description of this prop from that book (without pictures):

"The propeller was made for a 160ps engine, circa 1917. It is made of about 14 laminations of mahogany, pine and beech, which can be seen below in this side elevation of the hub.
The data reads from the top down;
D.R.P
FLIEGEL PROPELLER
PS160
M E R C E D E S
D 275
ST 1,85
NO. 2785
Which translates as;
Deutsches Reichs Patent; the design is patented
160hp; PS indicates Pferdest?rke, horsepower
Diameter 2750mm. Durchmesser is diameter
Pitch 1850mm. Steigung is pitch
NO indicates the prop serial number
The metal sheathing is shown below. Some of the original silver blue-grey paint might remain. Note that the sewing is done in rows, with a continuous wire so that the other side of the prop would have a mirror image.

This prop appears to have bullet holes and strike marks. The photo below shows what appears to be a bullet hole of around one third of an inch calibre, probably 0.303ins.
The exit point is slightly bigger, as one would expect. Both holes have been plugged.
Shown above is Standdrehzahl 1350, the speed in revs per minute to which the prop has been tested. Note also what appears to be a bullet strike by an almost spent round.
EDUL, above, indicates the direction of the engine rotation, here anticlockwise. ZUG shows that this is a tractor prop. Note another example of the strike of a nearly spent round."

There is no information concerning possible aircraft which could use this propeller.

[SFree]

That's outstanding information Sparrow! Thank you for sharing it. Do you happen to have a copy or pdf of the working copy of Volume Four part 2? I would love to have it with my prop as he once owned it himself.

It's interesting because the previous owner thought it was made in 1914 and was possibly a pusher. I suppose he did not have the information you have at his disposal. As it is a tractor prop and not a pusher, and owing to the fact that it was manufactured around 1917, I think it is likely that it is a Fokker D7 prop which matches the information I did happen to find. I have seen very few tractor props with this kind of sheathing but I have see a couple of pictures on Fokkers of sheathing etc. It is a remarkably difficult enterprise in tracking WW1 propellers like this down. I am grateful that Gardner did the excellent work he did and that his work remains in the hands of those who truly appreciate it.

Overall, the prop is in excellent condition for its significant age. There is some splitting (delam) but I'm reluctant to pursue any kind of restoration. Perhaps wax?

Again, I appreciate your reply and information immensely.

[SFree]

I am uploading a photo of a reproduction of a Kurt Fliegel poster of the era. I do not own it nor do I own the rights to it; however, I have included it for reference. It describes Kurt Fliegel Propeller manufacturer and mentions 'water screws'. Above I included a logo reference which designated the KF propeller to the Fokker D7. The KF propeller has a metal sheath and this was most often seen in conjunction with German naval float fighters such as the Rumpler 6b.1 or the Hansa Brandenburg. Does anyone know if KF only made props for float planes or if they indeed made sheathed props for the Fokker D7?

Cross and Cockade Vol 32 referenced prop manufacturers such as KF but I don't have the issues. Any help here would be appreciated.

[Sparrow]

Please check your messages.

[Ser199]

Hi friends! Please to meet you. My german propeller KF from ww1 italian battlefield. I found it in Padova and the only german planes that fought in Italy where DPW and ALBATROS CIII, we think. Is it possibile that these plane had this type of propeller? Sorry for my bad english

[Ser199]

Photo of the marketing
D. (R. P.)
Fliegel (propeller?)
...
ST 1 (77?)
N? 28 (??)

The number of propeller is similar to you Sfree!

KF produced 4000 propellers...you have 2785 and i have 28...! Compliment for your proppeller with KF decal. Should i remove the black paint to find it? It s an original camo paint you think or post? I don t know if I should clan it or not. Have you AN idea of valour(cost) of mine propeller?

Many thanks

Mirko

[Ser199]

Fabrice mark

[SFree]

Greetings Mirko. I would hesitate to perform any sort of restoration on your propeller unless there is a stain or overpaint that a professional could remove without damage. History is history.

Is your propeller complete or in pieces? Does it have bullet holes or battle damage? Condition, provenance and anything special like bullet holes all affect the value.

In my opinion, these fighter props from the Great War are priceless. They are exceedingly rare as you noted the small number made by KF. Very few survived the order to destroy them let alone the war. Currently, you could expect to get $1500 to $2500 or more for a part of the blade or hub; and $5000 and up for a full prop IF you are in a hurry and just want to sell it on eBay. On a reputable international auction house like Sotheby's, you could get tens of thousands depending on condition as I mentioned. The caviat is that you would wait and have to pay 20% or more to the auction house. Still, you would reach more of the right collectors.

Personally, I'd hang onto that beautiful piece of aviation history. It's like being in a club. Lol.

[Dbahnson]

Greetings Mirko. I would hesitate to perform any sort of restoration on your propeller unless there is a stain or overpaint that a professional could remove without damage. History is history.

Is your propeller complete or in pieces? Does it have bullet holes or battle damage? Condition, provenance and anything special like bullet holes all affect the value.

In my opinion, these fighter props from the Great War are priceless. They are exceedingly rare as you noted the small number made by KF. Very few survived the order to destroy them let alone the war. Currently, you could expect to get $1500 to $2500 or more for a part of the blade or hub; and $5000 and up for a full prop IF you are in a hurry and just want to sell it on eBay. On a reputable international auction house like Sotheby's, you could get tens of thousands depending on condition as I mentioned. The caviat is that you would wait and have to pay 20% or more to the auction house. Still, you would reach more of the right collectors.

Personally, I'd hang onto that beautiful piece of aviation history. It's like being in a club. Lol.

Although I claim to have stopped collecting these, I have to admit that I just paid $7,000 for a pre-WW1 propeller in original condition and am very pleased with the acquisition.

[SFree]

Although I claim to have stopped collecting these, I have to admit that I just paid $7,000 for a pre-WW1 propeller in original condition and am very pleased with the acquisition.

Would love to see any pics if you would like to share them. I'm sure it was a fine acquisition.

[Ser199]

Thanks Sfree. The paint is post war? ok. i will decide if remove it or not. 2500?5000? it's a lot in italy less. Maybe because italians are more common( i see an italian blade sell for 600 euro).
For the moment i will put it in my small museum. After the exhibition maybe i will sell it. However i have only one blade. I think that's a war trophy of an italian pilot took after famous battle of Istrana. On the base is broken. I think from crash