Se5a help please.

[JR44]

Thanks
I found this ad as well.
I phoned him up and he says if I have any problem it can be returned for a full refund.
The diameter from the stamps on the other side says 2530 which is 8"3.5'.
Before I bought it I was suspicious of the nefarious 7ft measurement so I asked for confirmation of the length and was confirmed as 8"3.5'
I believe the diameter of the Se5a prop which is featured on here is the same.
God this has got stressful!
I will update tomorrow.

[Dbahnson]

The diameter from the stamps on the other side says 2530 which is 8"3.5'.
Before I bought it I was suspicious of the nefarious 7ft measurement so I asked for confirmation of the length and was confirmed as 8"3.5'
I believe the diameter of the Se5a prop which is featured on here is the same.

The link to the listing is no longer valid and just goes to the home page for Breedon Antiques, but the original listing also stated the length in inches, and I recall it to be around 84 inches, or just around 7 feet as stated elsewhere in the listing. I think that listing posted the figure in inches and decimals and may have been 84.3" or 83.4" or something similar. (Note that 8"3.5' literally means "8 inches, 3.5 feet", which obviously is not what you meant, but the numbers coincide with the stated size if expressed only in inches.)

I regret not taking a screenshot of the entire listing before it was re-directed, but it's clear even from the picture that part of the original prop is missing.

The diameter of 2430 doesn't match the drawing number of AB 8218, so I don't know what marking you are referring to in the above post. Can you please post a picture of the "stamps from the other side" that you reference? I've never seen it, and have been under the impression that it was stamped with AB8218. Your reference to "the SE5A prop which is featured on here" is very confusing to me. What prop is that?

It's fortunate that he will accept it in return for a full refund. This could have ended badly if not, and I'm guessing that the purchase did not go through eBay, which also offers some protection for this kind of "misunderstanding".

But I also question the validity of the Sopwith Camel prop linked in your original post. I'd say it's a reproduction prop until proven otherwise, and I don't see any evidence that it's an original that has just been recently re-varnished, as implied (but not stated) in his description.

[JR44]

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My that was confusing.
It looks great to me! The guy personally delivered it. He owns the antique shop in the advert but his daughter sells stuff on ebay.
It was part of his fathers collection but he left it all to his grand daughter!

[Dbahnson]

Well, I still can't find that drawing number anywhere, and I also still have trouble understanding the stated 7 foot length and why this picture looks like a blade is shortened. Oh, well.

[JR44]

In the advert it said approximately 7 feet, that's why I asked her to measure it exactly during initial discussions.
Those photos certainly looked strange.
It's a bit odd about the drawing number. Can it be dated?
It's a beautiful thing.

[Dbahnson]

It's a bit odd about the drawing number. Can it be dated?

If Bob Gardner is still checking in he may have information on a production date based on the "G" and "N" numbers.

[JR44]

Great, thanks.

[Bob Gardner]

More gloom, I'm afraid.

I have just seen the photographs of your prop.

The drawing number of the propeller AB8218 is listed in the relevant Air Board publication for a 200hp Sunbeam Arab engine fitted to a Bristol F2B aircraft with a diameter of 2940mm and a pitch of 2580mm.

Your prop is marked for a 200hp Hispano-Suiza engine fitted to an SE5A.

This alone is sufficient for you to return it and demand your money back.

Bob

[JR44]

More gloom, I'm afraid.

I have just seen the photographs of your prop.

The drawing number of the propeller AB8218 is listed in the relevant Air Board publication for a 200hp Sunbeam Arab engine fitted to a Bristol F2B aircraft with a diameter of 2940mm and a pitch of 2580mm.

Your prop is marked for a 200hp Hispano-Suiza engine fitted to an SE5A.

This alone is sufficient for you to return it and demand your money back.

Bob

Thanks Bob,
I really don't understand this at all.
It is obviously a period made piece that has witness marks. There is no trace of any other stamps having been erased.
What exactly are you saying I have got then? And what might someone have done in the past to create this?
Also is it an example of a classic fraud?
I am confused!

[Dbahnson]

And I'm still curious about the Sopwith Camel propeller. Are we now seeing fairly high quality replicas entering the market? I've been concerned that such an event was inevitable as collectors realized the value of authentic originals.

There have been some fairly well crafted replicas available for the past few years, but the seller has been honest enough to identify them as such. Here's a current listing on eBay, for example:






.

[JR44]

I have enough other bits and pieces of ww1 propellers to know that this isn't a modern repro.
This is doing my head in.

[Bob Gardner]

I spent several hours yesterday and five hours today researching the data on the SE5A prop and trying to connect an SE5A with a Sunbeam Arab engine and a few moments ago I found one! A footnote which mentions that this engine, the Sunbeam Arab, was fitted to an SE5A!

I emphasise that the SE5A was built for the Hispano-Suiza engine, and the Wolseley Viper, a derivative of the Hispano engine. Apart from this one footnote, there is no evidence of any other use of the Sunbeam engine with the SE5A.

The block of ten Royal Aircraft Factory (RAF) drawing numbers that I have referred to (AB8210-AB8224) is something of a hotchpotch with two different sets of diameter and two sets of pitch, which relate to five different aircraft, none of them an SE5a. I suspect it might have been used by the RAF for experimental work, one which included a trial fitting of the Sunbeam engine to a SE5A aircraft.

So all the data on your SE5A prop is genuine. I have added this discovery to my database.

Quad Erat Demonstrandum !

Bob Gardner

[JR44]

I spent several hours yesterday and five hours today researching the data on the SE5A prop and trying to connect an SE5A with a Sunbeam Arab engine and a few moments ago I found one! A footnote which mentions that this engine, the Sunbeam Arab, was fitted to an SE5A!

I emphasise that the SE5A was built for the Hispano-Suiza engine, and the Wolseley Viper, a derivative of the Hispano engine. Apart from this one footnote, there is no evidence of any other use of the Sunbeam engine with the SE5A.

The block of ten Royal Aircraft Factory (RAF) drawing numbers that I have referred to (AB8210-AB8224) is something of a hotchpotch with two different sets of diameter and two sets of pitch, which relate to five different aircraft, none of them an SE5a. I suspect it might have been used by the RAF for experimental work, one which included a trial fitting of the Sunbeam engine to a SE5A aircraft.

So all the data on your SE5A prop is genuine. I have added this discovery to my database.

Quad Erat Demonstrandum !

Bob Gardner

Wow, Thankyou Bob that was a stirling effort!
Does any of the info give it a date?
I really appreciate this as I have been looking at in my living room whilst watching the Touring cars this afternoon thinking that it can't be a fake and feeling somewhat disheartened.
Thanks all.

[JR44]

I just Googled Sunbeam Arab Se5a and it seems that six Se's were fitted with this engine, as you say in tests.

[Bob Gardner]

John,

Thank you for telling me about the six SE5A's with Arab engines. I've added this to my database as well! I'm glad that we were (eventually) able to find an answer for you.

With kind regards,

Bob

Oh! A postscript; My guess is that the trial with Arab engines occurred as the Hisso engine came into use because initially it had several faults.