Se5a help please.

[JR44]

I have just bought this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1ww-Briti...53.m1438.l2649

But now I am worried that the drawing numbers look too good. Can someone put my mind at rest one way or another.
I didn't pay the full price by the way!
I have various bits of old prop and have had a windfall and thought it time to buy a full size one.

[Bob Gardner]

The link you have given us goes to a Sop Camel page which is entitled this item is no longer available but we have shown a similar item.

The prop there is a newly re-french polished Sop F1 prop, drawing number AD644 which sold for 3500 GBP. Is that the one you have bought?

It is a good example of a Sop Camel prop and has been recently re-French Polished.

With kind regards,

Bob

[JR44]

Hi Bob,
We have spoken before many moons ago.
I couldn't find my log in details so had to re register.
The link takes me to the right place try scrolling some more. The Sopwith prop was from the same seller.
I was just a bit worried that the stamps looked too well done.
Let me know if you can see it if not we can try something else.
Kind regards, John.

[JR44]

Hi Bob,
I have tried to get the pics over but it keeps wanting to show the Sopwith one.
It looks to have been flown as marks from the plate that holds it on are visible.
It has the four AID stamps and the numbers are
G184
N54
AB8218
200 hp Hispano Suiza
Se5a

It is in similar condition to the Camel one.

[Dbahnson]

I can't find the SE5 link either, but I am suspicious that the Sopwith prop looks a little too prisitine. Even with "re-French" polishing, one would expect to see nicks and other blemishes from an item that old, unless it had been carefully packed and stored since its manufacture. But if it had been stored like that, why would a dealer in military memorabilia think he had to alter it to sell it?

If the SE5 prop appears unblemished as well, then I think I'd be even more suspicious. See this photo of an original Camel prop and note the types of imperfections (wood checks, slight delaminations, etc.) that would persist with French polishing. One would expect to see similar changes along the entire length of both blades. Dents on the leading and trailing edges of the blades are very common with age.

[JR44]

I can't find the SE5 link either, but I am suspicious that the Sopwith prop looks a little too prisitine. Even with "re-French" polishing, one would expect to see nicks and other blemishes from an item that old, unless it had been carefully packed and stored since its manufacture. But if it had been stored like that, why would a dealer in military memorabilia think he had to alter it to sell it?

If the SE5 prop appears unblemished as well, then I think I'd be even more suspicious. See this photo of an original Camel prop and note the types of imperfections (wood checks, slight delaminations, etc.) that would persist with French polishing. One would expect to see similar changes along the entire length of both blades. Dents on the leading and trailing edges of the blades are very common with age.

I'm worried now! As the SE5A is in good nick as well.
I will try and get some pics up.

[JR44]

How do I post a screen shot from my phone on here?

[Dbahnson]

I don’t know the answer. If you email them to DAVE at woodenpropeller.com I can upload them later today.

[Bob Gardner]

'Evening John,

The hub data you have given us do not relate to the prop shown in the link, which is an SE5A propeller.

Your data translate as:

AB8218 a late 1918 Air Board drawing number for a Bristol F2b, commonly called a Bristol Fighter, sometimes reduced further to a Brisfit.

D2940 Prop diameter in mm

P2580 Pitch also in mm

Sunbeam Arab 1 The engine used in a few Brisfits

F2B The aircraft.

I am unsure which of these two sets of data are on the prop which you bought.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Bob Gardner]

John,

Looking back through my data, I see that I recorded the SE5A prop in your link some time ago, particularly the G and N numbers where I added the caveat that these markings might be a forgery.

This note and the difficulty you are experiencing in finding us a photo of what you have bought lead me to think you should ask for your money back (within seven days) after which you will take the seller to the small claims court.

With regret at giving you this bad news,

Bob

[Bob Gardner]

Postscript,

John do you have the name and address of the seller, and his eBay moniker?

Bob

[JR44]

Hi Bob,
The markings I posted earlier are on the supposed SE5A prop so are you telling me that these are not right and that you have seen them before?
It is supposed to be delivered tomorrow.

[JR44]

Postscript,

John do you have the name and address of the seller, and his eBay moniker?

Bob

The ebay name is missbex26

[Dbahnson]

In your notifications from eBay (i.e. completed sale) do you get the option to provide feedback on the seller? You should also be able to view the original listing instead of the current listing for a Sopwith propeller. If those options are not present I would contact eBay and ask them why. If you bought it "outside of eBay" from that seller eBay may not be able to help you.

[Dbahnson]

.

Yikes. You should return it for a full refund if you want to. Here's the description from another site:










He falsely states that the propeller is "full sized", which it isn't. Look at the asymmetry of the blades and the statement that its length is "approximately 7 feet". In a previous thread Bob pointed out that its drawing number (AB 8218 ) defines a length of 2940 mm, which corresponds to 9.65 feet. While I believe that the prop is authentically "antique" with respect to its manufacture date, it is not "full sized", as roughly two feet has been removed from one blade and the blade tip re-shaped to resemble the other one. Even the proportions on the short blade are "awkward" looking compared to a normal shape on the other blade.





Whether intentionally fraudulent or not, it's not an accurate description of the item and you should be entitled to return it for a refund. That's especially true in light of your original stated intent to obtain a "full sized" prop. If you need testimonial support in any way I'm willing to provide that and suspect that Bob would be as well.

Good luck!






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