Helice Levasseur prop

[Biggles1946]

Dear Forum,

I own a prop with the above name on it and I would like to find what aircraft this would have been used on and how old the prop is. I have pictures if needed.
Biggles1946

[Bob Gardner]

Biggles,

We need photographs and details of any data stamped on the prop. If they are not clear to read, include a macro photo of them.

With kind regards,

Ginger (aka Bob)

[Biggles1946]

OK trying to figure out how to post pictures, standby one....

[Dbahnson]

There should also be numbers stamped on it, the most important being "Serie xxxx", which can usually be cross-referenced.

[Biggles1946]

Helice Levasseur prop

Herewith four pictures of my Prop. I cannot see a serial number as such Dave, sorry.

[Dbahnson]

That's weird. Something doesn't seem quite right. It's not the usual Levasseur design, which typically had a flat leading edge and a curved trailing edge, similar to this one. It's also unusual in my opinion to see a French manufacturer not include a "Serie" number stamped on the hub. I don't recall any Levasseur propellers using the word "pitch" either. It looks as if it's either been refinished or even recently constructed, and there is no evidence of its actual mounting on a hub for use. Except for the decals, it almost looks "too perfect" for a prop that should be nearly 100 years old.

Maybe PMDec will have some input, but for me right now it's a complete mystery. (Didn't Levasseur propellers usually have a coating of dark paint rather than clear varnish?)

[Sparrow]

Yes, this propeller is strange and looks like replica for me.

[Bob Gardner]

I suspect it may have been mercilessly refurbished but it might be a fake. In its favour the Levasseur decal looks to be original. The layout and construction of the laminations look correct. The overall look of the complete propeller is British; olive green fabric on the tips. Early purchases by the British of 150hp Hisso engines were used in the SPAD. One of several props used was AB764 with D2414 and P1850 and stamped Levasseur Design.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Dbahnson]

AB723 for the SPAD also looks like Levasseur design, but I wouldn't expect to see Levasseur decals on a prop made by a different manufacturer.

I know you can't tell much about accurate colors and manufacturers did change them, but even then the decal looks a little "bright" to me. Compare it to this one, which is from a cut section of a propeller, and runs transversely across the blade instead of along its length.









I just haven't seen and/or photographed enough Levasseur decals to know if this one is "normal" or not.










.

[Biggles1946]

Thank you for all your input and feedback. It puzzles and intrigues me but I will get back to you with the exact info that is printed on the Hub.

[Bob Gardner]

Biggles,

Can you tell us anything about the prop. Did you restore it or have it restored it?

I think it is probably a genuine prop. Reproducing exactly the laminations found on a genuine prop would be an unlikely achievement.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Biggles1946]

I have had a closer look at the Prop and the marking on the first picture shows:
JN.4H
150.HISPANO.SUIZA
PITCH.VARIABLE.
DIA.7" 8"

The second shot is of the blade tip, which is a sort of green coloured paint or material.

The third shot is of the back of the blade.

The fourth shot is just to show how nice the wood shapes into the Hub.

The length is 91 Inches and the Hub diameter is 8 1/2 Inches.
Hope this helps.

[Biggles1946]

Hi Bob, I just saw your question. No, I did not touch it. This is the way it came out of the cloth that was wrapped around it. Obviously never been used. It was found on the rafters of an old garage in Kent and bought by a Collector, who in turn sold it to me.
Biggles.

[pmdec]

Hi,

IMHO, if you paid more than some pounds for it, you have to claim for a refund. With this length (91", ~231 cm) it is not even a replica but a decorative thing, probably made in Asia after 1980 (and perhaps last year!).
The fact it is stamped and a mimic decal was put on it is clearly misleading and, perhaps, the seller could be sued.
Just my opinion!

PM

[Bob Gardner]

Biggles,

You have inadvertently led me a merry dance, full of vacillation!

I have tended to think, with some reservation, that your prop is a genuine WW1 prop. But last night whilst puzzling about it, particularly about the colour of the wood, it occurred to me that I have been here before. About fifteen years ago, when I dealt in WW1 propellers, I was offered about six, two of which were genuine and four of which were modern replicas, although convincing. I didn't buy any of them. What passes for my memory, connected that the colour of them were similar to yours. Later I was contacted by makers of replica props by makers in the Philippines and in Korea. I have just googled this but have not found one exactly like yours. But last night it tipped me into thinking yours is a replica.

Now that you have given us the data above I return to the inclination that it is genuine because;
the diameter of 7'8" is exactly right for the SPAD S7 with the 150hp Hisso.
the term variable pitch does not imply the modern connotation, but simply that various pitches were tried or available with this prop. The term only occurs in the depths of one of my obscure databases, annotated to a propeller made by Ebora, drawing numbers 95 and 95A.

I don't think one of the Far East makers of replicas could get all of that right.

In passing, the British subsidiary of Integral made a prop of similar dimensions for the SPAD S7 to a design of Levasseur, IPC 2391, but I have no record of the term variable with one of these props.

So I conclude, after some oscillation, that your prop is genuine, but has been stripped and restored. Possibly the similarity in colour with modern replicas comes down to the use of similar modern lacquers. Nonetheless it is enigmatic.

Thank you for the intellectual challenge!

With kind regards,

Bob