Early Paragon Propeller from crash site with proof.

[Dan h]

This is a propeller that came off the plane in the old photo that I will post. It is a Paragon, marked Washington DC. I do not own the prop but am trying to make a deal. The owner in my town let me take a photo of it. I forgot to measure it but I can still find that out. The cool thing is that there is an old photo of the plane crash. The plane was brought to our town for a fair for a flight demo. It had engine problems and crashed into a pond at the fairgrounds. Old newspaper articles make note of souvineers being taken from the plane. It had to be hauled away on a train. The side of the plane says "enlist now in the air service, ask the pilot". I bet there were not many signed up! Lol.
The article I read seems to indicate the crash date around 1912 although I don't have the proof without more research.
Can anyone ID the plane? It looks like it also lost its rudder.
The propeller has a 6 bolt pattern.

[Dan h]

Logo

Logo on propeller says Paragon.

[Dan h]

Crash photo

Here is the photos of the pilot in the pond with a crowd grinning and seeming quite pleased with the misfortune.

[Dan h]

Few more details

Here is some closeups

[Dan h]

More details

Here is other side of propeller. It's broken but in my mind that's ok given the history.

[Dan h]

Side of propeller

There are no other markings I can see other than the logo.

[Dbahnson]

The stamped logo indicates that it was made in Washington, DC, before the company moved its manufacturing to Baltimore in 1912, so the propeller was manufactured between 1910 and 1912. The crash, of course, could have occurred any time after that. I can't identify the plane.

See this page for related discussion.

It might be useful to measure the prop from the center of the hub to the tip (times 2) to get its original length.

Nice artifact. You should be careful not to alter it in any way if you acquire it.

[pmdec]

Hi,

I find very strange the use on the same prop of dowels (very careful practice on early props due to glueing difficulties) and of two parts planks. But I don't know anything to Paragon early props construction...

About the plane: IMHO, it is from a later period, perhaps after 1918. And I am very astonished by army propaganda before WW1.

Regards,
PM

[Dan h]

Possible plane ID?

Do you think it might be a JN4? Wouldn't that be a very early propeller to put on that plane? I know our town had liberty bond events in 1918-1919. Maybe if the old car in the background could be identified that could help also.

[Dan h]

Another view

Here is the view of the damaged end.

[Dan h]

Newspaper article

Here is a scan of an old newspaper article written in the 1950's discussing the crash.

[Dbahnson]

Do you think it might be a JN4? Wouldn't that be a very early propeller to put on that plane? I know our town had liberty bond events in 1918-1919. Maybe if the old car in the background could be identified that could help also.

I doubt it very much. All of the Jenny props I've seen (OX5 and Hisso engines) had 8 bolt holes with a larger center hole for the hub. The six bolt holes and the nearly absent central bore suggests some kind of very early engine/hub arrangement. Knowing the diameter (length of the prop before losing a blade) will help narrow down the possibilities.

Keep in mind that the car manufacture date, like the propeller manufacturing date, don't necessarily date the event itself as both may be several years old when the event occurs.

[Dan h]

Measured the prop

I got the prop pictured here measured today and it's 50-1/2" from center to the end. Does this help anymore in identifying the engine or the plane pictured?
I guess that would make it right at 101" overall.

[Dbahnson]

It's a little longer than a JN4 prop, but besides that it has the 6 bolt hole hub with the narrow center bore. My opinion is that it precedes the JN4 and its OX5 engine, but narrowing it down to a specific plane by its remaining characteristics is likely to be very difficult, and probably better approached from investigating the accident itself rather than working from the propeller alone.

One thing, if you find that the car is a specific year model you'd know that the crash could not have occurred before that.

[Mtskull]

For what it is worth several years later, having made a detailed comparison between photos of various Curtiss JN-4 aircraft and the aircraft in the photo, in my considered opinion the crashed aircraft is definitely a JN-4.
As there are features of the propeller that do not correspond with a JN-4 item, I would very respectfully question whether the information concerning the history of the propeller can be verified as accurate.