Wooden Propeller recognition.

[Netheravon]

Hi everyone
For a number of years I have had an early wooden propeller of which I know nothing about except to say it has the following markings.
White Bedford, No 458, 80HP Daimler-Gnome, RH AD S88, Avro 179, DZ 650, P1950.
Due to poor stampings I cannot say for certain that the numbers are absolutely correct, but that is how I read them.
Can anyone give me any information such as what aeroplane it came from, what year and the approx value?
Thank you in anticipation

[Dave]

I had never heard of a Daimler Gnome, but just found this on Google.

How about a good close up of the stampings? I don't see any of the "AD" prop drawings that were designed to be used with a Gnome engine, so maybe the stampings are something else?

I'm guessing that the "DZ 650" is actually "D 2650", in which case it would represent a diameter (length) of 2650 mm, so you might measure the prop to confirm that. (The "P" refers to its pitch in mm.)

[Netheravon]

Dave

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Regarding the stampings, that could well be, I tried to enclose a photo of the Prop but I do not know how to reduce the size to fit in with the sites limitations.

I will have to wait for my grandson to get the Prop out of my loft, so that I can be more specific with the details.

Please bear with me and I will get back to you at a later date.

Regards

Netheravon

[Bob Gardner]

Hello Netheravon,

Does this mean you are AAC?

The prop is British from WW1. Your data is atypical and matches little in my database, although the layout of the data follows the conventional form.

White Bedford, No 458, The maker, not previously recorded; some possibilities are the makers Whitehead and White Allom,
80HP Daimler-Gnome The French Gnome engine made under licence by Daimler. Several French engines were made under licence in GB but the name of the British maker was seldom added.
RH AD S88 RH rotation propeller, drawing number AD588 or AB588. AD588 is a naval drg no, for an airship. AB588 is an army drg no. It probably was not used. AB555 was used on the Avro 504.
Avro 179 This is not an Avro aircraft type number, nor an Avro propeller drawing number. It might be the Avro serial number of the prop.
DZ 650; Propeller diameter 2650mm
P1950; Pitch 1950mm

Translating this data is difficult. It dates from very early in the war (The article Dave found in the Flight archive is dated November 1914. At this time the Avro 504 was one of the best aircraft in the RFC. The others were the BE2, MF trainers and Bleriots.

So, my guess is that it dates from late 1914 or early 1915 and was made for Avro under contract for the Avro 504, probably by White Allom & Co.

As requested by Dave, close-up photographs of the data will help a great deal; in exact focus; at a good resolution; with the prop well lit; preferable outside in diffuse sunshine. ( Netheravon, Much of this is entirely obvious but the more difficult the data is to read, the more perfect the photograph needs to be. The majority of photographs sent to me are not good enough. Some are unusable, suggesting that for some people the concept of taking a photograph is pointing a mobile phone at the subject and pressing the button.)

With kind regards,

Bob

[Dave]

We definitely need good close ups of the stampings.

In the meantime, these are the early ones sent to me via email. It's apparent that the fabric is missing from the rear of at least one blade, but it would be nice to see the front of the propeller as well. (That's the side that has more of a curve than the rear surface.)

I think maybe the "AVRO" is a stretch, as those look as if they might be numbers following the "A", so it would make sense that the 179 doesn't fit if it isn't AVRO.

[Bob Gardner]

These photographs negate some of my guess work above. Netheravon, could you please also send some photographs of both hub faces and the blade roots which might show an airworthiness stamp.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Bob Gardner]

Ah. I have discovered my mistake. I read AD588 as AD558. Brain fade.

Much of the data now makes sense. AD 588 was an early Admiralty design for the propeller fitted to the Naval Avro 504. The diameter and pitch of 2650 and 1950mm are correct, The aircraft was fitted with the 80hp Gnome engine. I have recorded one previous example which was made by Parnall & Sons, serial no 284.

Bob

[Bob Gardner]

Netheravon,

Twelve months later I have more info.

Your prop was made by Claude Graham-White in Bedford who made propellers under licence for Lucien Chauvière from c1910-1912 and then on his own for some years. I have not seen him referred to as plain White before.

The British firm of Daimler made the French Gnome 7-Cylinder rotary engine under licence from late 1914 onwards.

With kind regards,

Bob