Early Metal Capped Propeller Tip

[Gavin T]

I have a mounted prop tip which I would like to identify.
I have found similar brass capped prop images but not one that matches.
Can anyone help?

Regards
Gavin

[Dave]

I think it's very unlikely that you will ever be able to identify that, unless you happen to stumble across one just like it. It's hard enough sometime even with all of the data stamped on the hub.

[pmdec]

Hi,
For sure, it is an authentic propeller tip shieldieng. But I will be more deceptive than Dave: even if you find an the exactly same part on a propeller with its markings, it will be impossible to tell it came from the same prop: identical shieldings have been in used on different propellers. Add to that identical propellers have been in used on different aircraft.
So...

Regards,
PM

[Bob Gardner]

The method of attaching the brass sheathing here is countersunk screws with the head of each screw, and the slight depression, smoothed with solder. This was typically a British technique, although I don't intend to suggest that only the British used it. By contrast the Germans tended not to have screws in neat rows or used the different method where the brass was sewed to the wood with steel wire which went through the brass on both sides and the wood in the middle, before repeating the process.

The British method was patented by Dashwood Lang c1912 and patented again in America in 1913. He was lent to the USN in 1917 by the British Government and may well have sheathed the props he designed and manufactured for the USN in this method.

I don't know much about the French sheathing props with brass. Perhaps PM can tell us.

So it is possible that the prop is of British origin. Such sheathing was used on pusher aircraft, to prevent the blade surface being eroded by dust, grit and twigs thrown up by the wheels ahead of the prop on take off and landing, and in combat to defend against stray empty cartridge cases, the navigator's pencils, gloves and maps. And on seaplanes where the threat came from flotsam, and possibly just the force of water hitting the tip, which was moving faster than the rest of the prop.

With kind regards,

Bob

[pmdec]

Hi Bob,

I am not sure Gavin T prop shielding is secure by screws, it could be rivets. On the pics below are four prop tip shieldings (sheathings ?) from respectivley Chauvière (serial 2228, around 1919), Régy (serial 872, around 1922), Ratier (serial 764, around 1929) and Leseurre (serial 78, around 1924) props. All used rivets and solder to smooth the surface (and, imho, give a stronger assembly).

Regards,
PM

[Bob Gardner]

Bonjour Pierre-Michel,

Thank you for this info. May I add one or two of your photographs to one of my books? I did not know the French used rivets. I am writing the second edition on my book on the Design and Manufacture of British WW1 Propellers, where I sometimes compare British techniques with those of the French and German makers.

Avec le Respect,

Bob

[pmdec]

Hi Bob,

For sure! I will send you the original pics (large size) except for the Ratier because the pics are not from me. I also can make pics of the same place face and reverse because we have the props (except the Ratier: a pity!!!). We have also props with just the leading edge protected, with the use of screws for someones.

Regards,
PM

PS: By the way, I see you are writing a second edition... I am very ashame mine first one is hardly half finished...

[Bob Gardner]

Merci mon ami,

You are much younger than me and will probably have a much longer time to write your book than I have to write mine. Also, I produced my British prop books to a high quality; (130gsm art paper, hardbacks, dust jackets) which made them too expensive for some people. Therefore my German series is of a more ordinary quality with soft covers and will cost £27.00 GBP instead of £41.00 GBP. So the second edition of Design & Manufacture of British WW1 props is being rewritten, updated and printed to this lower standard for those who missed it first time round.

I just need one photograph. Please choose one which shows most clearly the rivets. Most of this section in my book describes how the British sheathed prop tips with brass with a brief comment that the Germans did it so, and the French, thus.

Will your book on French props be bilingual?

Bon Soir!

Bob

[Gavin T]

Hi Bob, many thanks for the information on this prop tip. We found this amongst my late fathers belongings and are interested in finding out whether it is a collectable piece. My father was interested in aviation for most of his life but we do not know how he came to have this prop tip, having some idea of it's age and origin may help us to find out where he got it from or from whom.

Kind Regards
Gavin