Garuda and Axial

[gino]

Hello everyone
Does somebody knows which date Garuda and Axial stopped their
propeller production?

Thanks
Gino

[Bob Gardner]

Hallo Gino,

Why do you ask this question?

As a generalisation Idflieg ordered a cessation of aircraft production in December 1918 and January 1919. Most prop makers were existing wood-workers of various forms when recruited as prop makers (pianos, coffins, furniture, advertising hoardings, pattern makers) where the prime requirement was not so much a skill at wordworking as experience in the mass production of wooden items. In early 1919 most returned to their original trade.

Garuda Propellerbau GmbH
42-43 Naumburgerstrasse, Neukölln, Berlin

The company was probably formed in 1910. It was one of about five professional prop makers in existence at the start of WW1 in August 1914. Garuda is the name of the large mythical bird or bird-like creature that appears in both Hindu and Buddhist mythology. Perhaps this is what Ralph Kornmann had in mind when he patented a prop design on 18 July 1911 that became one of the most advanced props of its time.

The company became a Limited Company on 13 December 1911 with Ralph Kornmann as the managing director. He is described in the company articles as a Rentner, a pensioner, but from whom he was drawing a pension (if that is what is meant) is not recorded. The word is also a palindrome ! The company had 125,000 Marks of capital, a relatively huge amount compared with most other prop makers. There were two other directors; Dr Felix Erwald and Hans von Gwinner, both also described as pensioners. The purpose of the company was to build aircraft and propellers. As well as ‘Garuda’ props there is reference to Ala propellers, but no further indication of what they might have been. Ala is Latin for ‘wing.’

IACC reports that after the end of the war the company assets were sold to Herrn Hirsch und Honemann, of whom I have discovered nothing.

Axial Propeller Fabrik GmbH
307 Frankfurter Allee, Berlin
45 Oraniendamm, Berlin
58 Warschauer Strasse, Berlin
27 Rigaer Strasse, Berlin
26 Kopernikus Strasse, Berlin

Although amongst the best known of German WW1 prop makers, the origins of the Axial company are obscure. I have not been able to discover when the company was formed. Also, there are five addresses connected with the company and I am not sure of exactly when Axial occupied them. However, the company became one of the major German prop makers of WW1.

Origins
In 1900, a Berlin cabinet-maker, Gustav Schwarz, who made furniture and coffins moved from Friedrichsgracht, close to the Jungfernbrücke, to 45 Oraniendamm in the Waidmannslust suburb of Berlin where he hired a two-story house with a large woodworking factory behind it, which included a planing room and a sawmill as well as a furniture workshop. Later he moved to Warschauer Strasse (Warsaw Street) to the same address used later by Axial, number 58. It is likely that Gustav Schwarz sold his furniture business to Peter Westphal of Axial in 1915, who brought more finance to the furniture company, which he developed as the Axial company. It is not likely the Axial were making propellers at this time.

It would seem that Axial already existed at 307 Frankfurter Allee when Westphal bought out Gustav Schwarz. So, at this point Axial had two locations, Frankfurter Allee and 45 Oraniendamm.

A news cutting from Motorwagen of 30 May 1916 states that on 30 March 1916, the Axial Propeller company became a limited company with Paul Westphal (an engineer) and Emil Fenner (a salesman) as directors with capital stock of 80,000 Marks.

By early 1920, all connection with aviation had ceased and the company had returned to making high quality furniture. A few years later they began making pianos.

Mit freundliche Grüssen!

Bob

[gino]

Hi Bob

Thanks a lot for your effort to answer this one. I didn't expected
such a detailed respons.The reason I ask, is that I would like to
add a garuda or axial to my collection in the future and as I am not
a specialist I don't want to be seddled up with a post ww1 propeller
by mistake because of lack of knowledgement.
So, if I am right, most german propeller makers stopped making
propellers at the end of ther war, except of Heine and maybe a few others.
Looking forward to buy your German propeller book.

thanks again
greetings
Gino

[Bob Gardner]

Hi Gino,

As far as I know, only Heine and Schwarz survived WW1.

I'll do my best to help. If you think a second opinion will help, send me photographs of anything you consider buying. I think you know my email address? Don't repeat it here or I'll get even more spam.

Here's a check list, which I'm sure you don't need but I enclose it for other forumites.

Before vetting the prop, vet the seller. Is he open and friendly with nothing to hide? Or is he furtive and makes you suspicious?

Measure the prop. Does the length match the quoted diameter stamped on the prop? A variation of a few cm was allowed during manufacture and also to rectify tip damage. Make sure both blades are exactly the same length.

Does the prop have a new shiny finish or does it look as though it is about one hundred years old? Many props of this age have been refinished.

Does the data on the hub or blade match other known examples?

Make a list in your head of both its good points and its defects.

Do not 'sell' yourself the prop. Do not get excited. If you instantly fall in love with the prop, go home and mull it over for a day before returning.

In this electronic age most of the above can be done by email, which is an advantage.

Finally, it took me some years to realise that deciding not to buy a prop is always a success. Your money is intact. Another will turn up.

With kind regards,

Bob

[gino]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for your help. As soon something interestings showes up,
I'll send you an email with details and pictures.

best regards
Gino

[Bob Gardner]

Thanks Gino,

I'll be able to add them to my database.

Bob

[F.D.M]

Hi Bob,

In reference to your second post, I would like to add Astra as a German surviving WW1 propeller manufacturer.

To my estimates Astra continued to manufacture propellers until the late 1920s.

Best Regards,

[Bob Gardner]

Hi FDM,

Many thanks for this valuable info. It has taken me a long time to find out a little about the Astra company. Do you know if the German Astra Co. was related to the French Astra Company? I have come to the conclusion that it was the German subsidiary, not least because it advertised at first as Astra et Cie.

The French Intégrale Co had subsidiary companies before WW1 in Britain, Russia and Germany (and I think, possibly Austria but I haven't checked my notes recently). The German company survived for the first two years of WW1 continuing under German ownership as Integrale Propellerwerke until 1916 when it transformed itself into the Imperial Propellerwerke.

With kind regards,

Bob

[F.D.M]

Hi Bob,

Unfortunately I have no information regarding the possible relation between the two companies.

To my knowledge Astra was a trade name of A. Steiniger & Co based at Bremen-Hemelingen and not the legal name of the manufacturer itself. If it would have been a subsidiary to a French company I would have suspected the Germans to have it either liquidated or nationalized in a same manner as what happened to the Integral Propellerwerke.

As for the French Société Astra des Constructions Aéronautiques I do know they were balloon and airship manufacturers and have to my limited knowledge no affiliation with the manufacturing of propellers. If there actually would have been a relation between the two companies I would suspect it to be purely financial. Taking into account that the connection has to be pre-war. So far I have only come across Astra propellers of late war aircraft, DFW C.V and Fokker D.VII.

On the Internet sometimes the name Adastra Propellerwerke GmbH in Berlin pops up, are you aware of any relation or the origin?

As to my statement of the post war continuation of the propeller manufacturing activities, I can add that several Fokker aircraft of the 1920s were equipped with Astra propellers as well as Heine and Lumière. If I have some more time I will point you to some photos by link as confirmation.

Best Regards,

[Bob Gardner]

Hi FDM,

I should have checked my draft before writing.

I agree that Astra was merely the trading name. The company called itself Steiniger et Cie which led me to wonder if it was connected to the French Company.

But as you say the company arrived on the scene late in 1917 when Kriegsverband Nr 163, Potsdam reports that the company’s trademark was registered. IdFlieg listed it as a maker on 8 February 1918.

I have a little about Adastra; their address; examples of their props and decals. They made props for the Navy.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Bob Gardner]

Postscript. Photos of post war Astra props would be most welcome!

Bob

[F.D.M]

Wooops, I forgot to include a link belonging to my last post with some info.

Here it is:

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/mo...ker-d-vii.html


Hmm, I never really noticed the difference between Astra and Adastra. Adastra was unknown to me and I have no info about it at all. Reading about the info you say you have, I do believe you have a lot, especially with a decal.


Just before writing this message I have sent you a PM with photos regarding post war Astra props. You probably will like it, I hope.


Best Regards,

[Bob Gardner]

FDM,

Thank you for both the link above and the photographs in the PM. The photos are excellent. May I include some in my book on German props, to illustrate Astra post war. It was about to go to the printer! Your photographs arrived just in time.

Please let me know your name so I may attribute the photographs and the 1926 info to you in the book.

Where do you live? I'm in the North of England but in a few days I am driving from Rotterdam through NL, and alongside the Rhine via Freiburg to the North of Switzerland. If you live within 100 miles of this route, I would like to come and say hello.

With kind regards,

Bob

[F.D.M]

Ho Bob... I think we got off on the wrong foot.

Unfortunately I do not own any props or photos and neither do I have the copyright. This is one of the reasons why I sent everything by PM. While I thought it would be clear, I should have been more explicit about it. Hopefully you are not disappointed. I would like to recommend you to contact the owners / copyright holders for permission to use their photos / info. Maybe you can even visit and check out the prop yourself. I sincerely do hope you are successful and will be able to use the photos and info for your book.

Later this day I will sent you a PM with some more info about the copyright and who to contact at the forum I sent you in the original PM.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding!

Best Regards,

[Bob Gardner]

'Afternoon FDM,

I don't believe there will be any copyright in force for the photographs of the Fokker aircraft of the 1920's. The copyright on them expired after fifty years. But out of courtesy I do like to add an attribution for the many photographs kind people have sent me. Without them, writing my books would not be possible.

I do not want to use the modern photographs of the restoration of the Fokker C.Vd prop, so there is no need for you to contact anyone.

I apologise for misunderstanding you. When I read that you had collected.... around 200 different brands of propeller decals with associated photos and info ...I hoped that I might be able to see them when I passed through den Nederland on Sunday.

You asked for a photo of the Astra decal in use during WW1 and if you let me know your e-mail address, I'll send it to you.

With kind regards,

Bob