Huge wooden prop

[doycowz]

I have an old wooden prop that has copper tips, I have been told it is pre WW 1... I have had it for years,, could someone please look at it and maybe shed some light on this for me,,,

[MWP_Lamar]

Does it have any marking on it, especially on or near the hub?

Lamar

[Bob Gardner]

Some photographs of the data will help. Please photograph all four sides of the hub so that any letters or numerals can be seen. This is very often difficult. You might need several attempts. Photographing at a slant against the light sometimes shows data in relief.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Dave]

It does have a pre-WW1 "look" about it, although the metal sheathing was certainly less common then. Be sure to include good close-up photos of the hub area.

[doycowz]

Huge wooden prop

Thanks guys for the feedback,, I will def take some photos and post them,,, I will try to get numbers but as I can tell I dont see any,,,this prop is very light, and very old,, or so it seems,,,

[D.Hicklin]

age and weight?

Hello from Dennis in seattle. That is indeed an interesting looking prop you have there. Please dont take any of this wrong, its just an observation, based purely upon the picture you have posted. You had indicated that you have had the prop for years, and that its very light weight wise.

I noticed that the way the prop is situated next to the light fixture, there seems to be a high shine on the " copper " metal sheathing. If indeed the patina had been preserved and not touched, then I assume there would not be such a high reflectivity, and if this is so, then the sheathing on the other blade tip at the bottom seems to not have the same high shine on it.

While I am no expert on the WW1 airscrews, the statememnt of it being " very light " just makes me wonder about the true origin of this prop. I would surmise that a prop of that size would have considerable heft to it.

Take a look on e-bay and you will see a lot of reproduction props that come from various foriegn islands from all over the world, most are obvious that the shape tells the tale, and the price as well, often well below what a real prop should sell for. But that is just my observation. It will be interesting to see the forthcoming photos that you will provide to show more detail on this particular prop you possess.

The elder statesman of the WW1 time period, ( Mr. Bob Gardner ) of props and his endless accurate list's of incredible information, in my opinion will tell the tale of if its real or something else.

Thanks for posting the current picture.

Sincerely,
Dennis Hicklin
Seattle Washington

[doycowz]

Huge wooden prop

Hey guys I am back with some pics,,, I could not find any markings or serial numbers,,,,tell me what u think even if u hurt my feelings,,

thanks
Doyle Cowart
Groves Texas

[pmdec]

Hi,
Could you post pictures of the other three sides of the hub, even without any marking (clear close up and no flash please) and a close up of part of the shielding showing two or three rivets and the edge?
Which is the size of the central hole and the exact length of the prop?
Which kind of wood do you think it is made?
Regards,
PM

[Bob Gardner]

'Morning Everyone,

It is a most unusual propeller and one of the most interesting to have surfaced on our forum. As Dave says, it does have an early look to it.

Copper was occasionally used for sheathing but it oxidises to a green copper oxide quite quickly. The style of the sheathing looks to be of British design, patented in Britain in 1912-ish by Dashwood Lang and introduced to America when he was imported to advise the USN in 1917.

Early props had six bolt holes for some time when transmitting 40 to 60 hp. Eight bolt holes began to be used once engines of 100hp and more came into use in Europe around 1915. The eight bolt holes on this prop run close to the edge of the hub, which suggests the hub was intended to have six bolt holes, not eight. The witness marks of the hub plate don't show any evidence of the typical circular cut-outs between the bolt holes to reduce the weight.

The wood looks like beech but might also be spruce, which was typical of early American props.

So the prop is a collection of contradictions; an early US shape suggesting a dirigible prop from 1910-1912; but with bolt holes and sheathing, in the European style from 1915-1918. It might well have been both of these things; an early prop recycled.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Bob Gardner]

An afterthought. I went back to studying the photo of the hub. There appear to be suggestions of six bolt holes which have been filled with dowelling; at the eleven o'clock and six o'clock positions. And by extrapolation I think I can see traces of five of the six.

If so, this is likely to be an early American prop c1912 or so. At this time American aviation had not advanced much and there were few makers, so a search of photographs of US aircraft types from this time might reveal this shape of propeller?

Bob

[D.Hicklin]

amazing!

Thank you Bob for sheding some light on what this prop is. As ever, I am amazed at the wealth of information about the past that surfaces from your list's that you have compiled. That prop is a rare one indeed. I hope the current owner decides to just keep it and not convert into cash. Always a pleasure to learn something new.

Sincerely,
Dennis Hicklin
Seattle Washington

[Bob Gardner]

Hi Dennis,

It's only a tenuous hypothesis at the moment, that has yet to be proved. Firstly we need Doyle to confirm that six bolt holes filled with dowelling do exist

One line of research which someone might undertake is to look at early aviation in Texas. I think Glen Curtiss flew a pusher there. And that one of his pusher aircraft was flown in a Mexican revolution about that time? (I assume from my eurocentric point of view that Mexico and Texas have a common border?). If a Curtiss prop looks like this one, we are making progress.

With kind regards,

Bob

[doycowz]

Here is the hub,,, I will get some more pics,,,,Your responses are so appreciated and have me excited,,, I have had this prop for almost 30 years,,

thanks from Texas

Doyle Cowart...

[doycowz]

Huge wooden prop.,,, from Texas

Hey guys thanks for all the feed back,, let me tell u a little history how I came to have said prop,,, I worked at Browning Aerial Service in Austin Texas,,, I was just a mechanic helper and was told to clean out one of the old quonset hut hangars,,,and was told to throw everything away that was in it,,when I cut the lock and walked in I felt like Indiana Jones walking into a pharaohs tomb,, there sat a Piper cub with the fabric rotted off,,an old Navy trainer Stearman with the fabric rotted off,,it was a graveyard of plane parts,,, I knew enough to know that I was not going to throw the props away,,,during my cleanup they moved me to refueling and relieved me from my cleanup so I never knew what happened to the rest of the stuff

thanks

Doyle Cowart

[Bob Gardner]

Doyle,

Can you see the remains of six bolt holes filled with dowelling? The most obvious is the white mark.

Bob