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**Brett Robb** · 01-29-2013, 05:45 PM

Hello Bob, It may be unrelated to A. Edmonds & Co. But my Lang of America and several other propellers from North American makers have appeared on this forum with the name A.J. Edmonds stamped on them, a couple of which were also stamped defective right next to his name. All these propellers also have a connection to Canadian Aeroplanes Ltd. Probably just a coincidence or possibly they were contracted to consult. assist or train other makers or Canadian Aeroplanes Ltd.

Brett

**Bob Gardner** · 01-30-2013, 07:02 AM

'Morning Brett,

I have spoken to David Edmonds, the current managing director of Edmonds. His grandfather wrote a history of the company and a few pages describe their activities during WW1. They are sending me a copy.

The thought crossed my mind too about the Canadian firm of Edmonds. It might be a parallel to Watts and Lang in the USA. I'll wait and see what I can discover when the book extract arrives.

Many thanks for telling me about this lead.

With kind regards,

Bob

**Charawacky** · 02-27-2014, 04:28 PM

Here is a nice picture of Crossley Tender and trailer transporting boxed Propellers by Barker & Co

**Bob Gardner** · 02-28-2014, 06:43 AM

Marvellous; thank you so much! This is a superb photograph.

I have added a new folder to my photograph library entitled 'new stuff for British Props second edition.' And your photo is the first addition. I have several others, perhaps many others, which I must gather and put in this folder but at the moment I'm concentrating on completing my books on German props.

With kind regards,

Bob

**Charawacky** · 02-28-2014, 05:22 PM

Hi Bob

I am putting together an article for the Crossley Register, an organisation which you probably are not aware of as the number of all surviving Crossleys is low, and only a handful from the Great War are still extant, two of which are in my hands.
I am including this image and would like to write a few words about Barker & Co, such as where they were from and what they did prior or post WW1.
If you could help in this matter it would help to elevate me to new heights in the register!
Here is a collection of Pathe clips I stuck together a few years back and show a prop being taken to an stricken aircraft - staged for the camera I am sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6rLSXwgHWw

I will be at Stow Maries, Essex, with the Crossleys and P&M motorcycles for the Fly In on the 10th of May along with 7 of Peter Jacksons WW1 aircraft.

Thanks

Tom

**pmdec** · 02-28-2014, 06:04 PM

Hi,

Thanks for the link! From 3:20 to 4:10 it shows the replacement of an airscrew. How it was fitted to the engine? I just see one center nut screwed on... Kind of a "quick system"? Or was the metallic hub already fitted on propellers (possible view of this one at 3:31)?

Regards,
PM

**Bob Gardner** · 03-02-2014, 07:54 AM

Bonjour Pierre-Michel,

I don't think there was anything unusual. The film doesn't show each of the eight bolts being fastened, nor the castellated nuts or locking wire fitted through the holes in each bolt. I don't believe the British had a quick release and fastening hub. Lucien Chauvière developed one to the prototype stage before WW1. Do you have any information on it? Rupp in Germany developed his successful one with a central nut, around 1917 and his company continued well into WW2. The thought always occurs that Rupp might have worked for the German Branch of Chauvière's Integral company, seen details of their quick-release mechanism and developed it himself to successful widespread use.

Avec le Respect,

Bob

**Bob Gardner** · 03-02-2014, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by Charawacky View Post

Hi Bob

I am putting together an article for the Crossley Register, an organisation which you probably are not aware of as the number of all surviving Crossleys is low, and only a handful from the Great War are still extant, two of which are in my hands.

I am including this image and would like to write a few words about Barker & Co, such as where they were from and what they did prior or post WW1.

I will be at Stow Maries, Essex, with the Crossleys and P&M motorcycles for the Fly In on the 10th of May along with 7 of Peter Jacksons WW1 aircraft.

Thanks

Tom

'Morning Tom,

Thank you so much for telling us about this film clip. It had never occurred to me to look for WW1 aircraft on U-tube, although I watch clips of my other passion; motor sport. I have several hours of exploring ahead of me!

I know almost nothing about Barker's. They were the famous coach builders of Rolls-Royce etc and typical of famous leading firms in that they had knowledge of mass production of wooden objects. They were recruited late in WW1 to make aircraft propellers.

I enclose below the text of my section about Barker's. I have some photographs in my book. Send me an email to aeroclocksatbtinternetdotcom (written thus to evade the spambots) and I'll send a pdf of the section with photographs. But I emphasise that I know very little about Barker's.

With kind regards,

Bob

Barker & Co Ltd
66-68 South Audley Street, London.
Works at Olaf Street, Latimer Road, Nottinghill, London

The company was a leading London coachbuilder, primarily in wood, and were ideally placed in WW1 to take on war work such as making propellers, which it made from 1916 to 1919.

The company was formed in 1710 by one of Queen Anne’s Guards Officers. He became prominent during the reign of George III who favoured him. His company continued to hold the Royal Warrant for successive reigns making at least twenty coaches for Queen Victoria and car bodies for King Edward VII and King George V. In 1905 or 1903 (references vary) they became body suppliers to Rolls Royce cars.

During the nineteenth century the premises were at 66 Chandos Street, off the Strand in central London. In 1909 the works was at Olaf Street in Shepherd’s Bush and the offices and showroom at South Audley Street in Mayfair. The company’s letterhead in Figure 91 was rather busy. Of note is the Royal Warrant, centre, which indicated that Barker’s provided cars and ceremonial horse-drawn coaches to King George V.

Figure 91 Barker letterhead
Figure 94 Barker advert

I have not found a complete example of a Barker made propeller. This photo shows a single blade, the only known example of their work, probably. The hub remnant below is probably from a Barker & Co propeller and appears to be the 43rd prop made and is dated 1916. (It’s not the stamp of the British & Colonial Aeroplane Company.)

Figure 98 Probable Barker propeller hub

The company closed in 1938 and was taken over by Hooper.

**Charawacky** · 03-02-2014, 12:30 PM

Hi Bob

The image I posted of the Crossley with trailer and boxed props is taken on the Jerusalem-Jericho Road just outside Jerusalem undergoing repairs, immediately after the advance of our troops using all the local labour to rebuild the road.

On a different topic which you mention there is a u tube video of my old Bentley taking a trip around le mans which may interest you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9bhTfpw54o

Tom

**Bob Gardner** · 03-03-2014, 10:02 AM

Tom,

How marvellous! Thank you for telling me. Lovely engine note. Well driven, if you will allow me to say so. Good race-craft too. Are you double-declutching on upward changes as well as down? Had you gone round with no traffic I should think you could have brought the record down a further minute.

I started off around 1968 hill-climbing and saloon car racing my Imp with a 998cc engine, then migrated into rallying. On one occasion I was so annoyed with my useless navigator that I put him in the driving seat and I navigated, to discover that both of us suited our new seats very well! I then remained a navigator for the next thirty years or so. Mainly club and national events but International events when I could escape from the Army.

Lovely engine note!

With kind regards,

Bob

**Charawacky** · 03-03-2014, 12:52 PM

Hi Bob

I am no racing driver, my lap average was only 60 mph! but I enjoy the car especially if I can get past a Talbot 90 fitted with a 105 engine!
I have driven this 1925 car for over 40,000 miles with more time above 70mph than below, this car has the first engine I had ever built and revs over 3750, just occasionally. I am currently building a 1912 Crossley which has the same bore and stoke as the Bentley but can only rev to 2100 rpm but has colossal torque being a side valve with very short connecting rods.
I attach a picture of one of the Crossleys with a trailer like the Period image posted earlier.

Attached Files

DSCF0197 adj.jpg (93.8 KB, 30 views)

**Bob Gardner** · 03-03-2014, 01:15 PM

Thanks Tom. Another good photograph.

How many Crossley's exist on the Register? Both the Shuttleworth Collection and the RAFM have one I think, both with a Hicks Starter?

For fellow forumites I should add that the Hicks Starter was a device which started aero engines in WW1. It was mounted on the Crossley small truck used by the RAF and probably was connected to the engine via a power take off.

These views reduce this post by at least a thousand words.
http://www.belgian-wings.be/webpages...erWevelgem.htm

**pmdec** · 03-03-2014, 05:06 PM

Hi Bob,

Never heard of a Chauvière quick release or fastening hub! I read some lines in a French newspaper or perhaps in Flight oabout what it could be such a system at Paris Air Show, around 1912, but it was linked to Bertrand Montet products. Anyway, I did not see any drawing.
Where have you read about such a mechanism made by Chauvière?

Regards,
PM

Did you want a copy of the lines I read? I could be able to retrieve them...

**Bob Gardner** · 03-03-2014, 05:22 PM

Bon Soir PM,

I think I read about them in Flight too, from 1914 in an account of a London Air Show where M. Chaudière ...exhibited a very neat contrivance in the form of a quick expelling nut to be used in connection with the standard metal bosses. I know nothing else!

Avec le Respect,

Bob

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Known British Prop Makers of WW1

Known British Prop Makers of WW1

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