What do I have??

[Clifford Eshuis]

Dear Propeller people,

I have recently inherited a propeller from my father. It seems to be a WO1 propeller but I am not sure. I live in Amsterdam, Holland, Europe, so it will probably be a European manufacturer.

Can anyone help me please?!

Thank you and friendly greetings,

Cliff

[Dave]

What numbers and/or letters are stamped on it?

[Bob Gardner]

And could you please let us know the length of the prop in mm? Looks like a Chauviere design from the first half of WW1 but we need the data, as Dave says.

With kind regards,

Bob

[D.Hicklin]

magnificent!

Welcome to the forum Cliff. Just a bit of advice to you before you make any decisions about your newly inherited prop from your father. First of all, dont even for a moment consider selling it, what you have there is a great prop that is a great piece of history and is a great piece of crafstmanship. Second, you have it for free, a major perk.

An airscrew of that size and elegance deserves to have a place on your wall or mantle for many decades to come, and perchance to be handed down to future generations as well that can appreciate what it is and what time period it came from.

Far too many times, people will see it only for the money they can get for it from a sale, I encourage you to hang onto it and just let it be a part of your family for as long as can be enjoyed.

Just my 8 cents worth.

Sincerely,
Dennis Hicklin
Seattle Washington

[Clifford Eshuis]

Hello Dave,

Thanks for your reply. I have measured the prop, its 250 meters or 98,42 inches.
The numbers are as follows, 365 HO 3231 and on the other side of the circle it says, j or S or 8 200.

Hope you can do something with it.

Greetings, Cliff

[Clifford Eshuis]

Hello Bob and Dennis,

Thanks for your reply's. i hope to find a suitable place for the prop, I think it belongs in a museum. I have tried to contact a museum in Holland but so far no reply.

I would not mind selling the prop considering the fact that I am not an enthousiasic air traveller. It would be more at its place with a person that has a love for the object.
Which does not mean that I can not appreciate the beauty and history of it...

Greetings, Cliff

[D.Hicklin]

about the element of the musuem

Hey Cliff. Just a tip for you about donating it to a museum, DONT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a very wise contributor had posted on this very forum, a lot of the time when that happens, the prop gets stashed in the basement along with a lot of other artifacts and it never gets displayed properly as it should.

If infact you decide that your going to sell it, please get in touch with me at the e mail address listed on my business card, lets have a discussion about it. I totally understand about you not having a true interest in it. Thanks for posting again.

Sincerely,
Dennis Hicklin
Seattle Washington

[lion65]

Hallo Clifford Eshuis,

Met veel belangstelling volg ik de correspondentie over uw propeller. De propeller zat op een Farman HF-22, o.a gevlogen bij de Luchtvaartafdeeling, de huidige Koninklijke Luchtmacht.
Ik heb u een private message gestuurd via het forum voor verder contact.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Gert de Leeuw

[Bob Gardner]

Hi Gert,

Good to hear from you. I have started on my books on German WW1 props.

My attempted translation of your note in Dutch is below.
Your prop is from a Henri Farman 22 that was used by the fledgling Dutch Air Force.

I would add that the HF22 was an upgraded version of the HF20 with a Gnome Lambda engine and it was in use around 1914-1915. The distinctive shape with a straight line trailing edge is charactersitic of props designed by Lucien Chauviere of the Integral Propeller Company. I do not think that I have seen an earlier prop stamped with Dutch data. Because the Netherlands were neutral during WW1 they made and used only a tiny fraction of the props and aircraft made by Germany, France and Britain.

Therefore it is exceptionaly rare.

Gert, I have trespassed on your territory, for which I apologise. Please correct anything I've got wrong,

Met vriendelijke groet,

Bob

[Dave]

Bob, Gert and Anyone Else,

Since the HF 22 was a pusher with a Gnome engine, wouldn't the prop be a left hand thread? I found several photos of the Farman on the web and it seems the prop is left hand rotation on those. I'm curious how it was established that this one was for the HF 22 when it clearly appears to be a right hand rotation.

[lion65]

Hello Bob and Dave,

Unfortunately I was too quick with my conclusion. Not so smart of me, without further information... It is indeed not a pusher propeller. I do not think it is a propeller of Dutch manufacture, because it has not typical Dutch data.
The sizing does indicate that it possible concerns a 80 hp rotation engine.
(Shaft size 60 mm, diameter circle 8 bolt holes 110 mm)
We need to wait for better pictures, perhaps they telling more.

Bob, soon I'm going take all the photos for you from the German propellers and accompanying texts. I'll keep you informed.

Kind regards from Holland,
Gert

[Dave]

It could still be a pusher propeller. You can't always tell by looking at the propeller. It relates to the rotation of the engine it was used on. Typically, a "standard" engine was simply installed backwards and a propeller with opposite thread direction was installed on it. But the aerodynamics of the prop are the same. It just turns out that most non-geared aircraft engines were right hand rotation.

[Clifford Eshuis]

Some more pictures

After a visit to The Early Birds in Holland and some good advice by the members on this forum, it seems that the prop is a very early one.
It is possibly used on a rotary engine but it is not clear on what plane it was mounted. The mouting holes and the size of the hub is the same as the right prop on the picture.

Gert has suggested that it was mounted to a Gnome engine, as shown in the picture or maybe a LeRhone Rotary engine.

Technicians also speculated that is may have been used on zeppelins.
I don't know if any of this can be claimed with any certainty.
It seems however clear that the prop is a rare one.

The search goes on...

[Dave]

Cliff, make sure you review this page about how to measure the hub data, then click on the link for hub dimensions to see if you can get a match. A "match" doesn't mean that it necessarily was that engine, but it does eliminate the other engines in the chart. There are some engines for which the data is not recorded, and that is also useful information as well.

[D.Hicklin]

safety tip!

Cliff, if this isnt already evident, then it should be, be careful, the more you drag that prop around, the more chances it has of being dinged and dented, and dents and dings are not part of the original patina on such a great piece.

Just a thought to consider.

Sincerely,
Dennis Hicklin
Seattle Washington.