SE5a Prop?

[rower_69]

Hi Everyone,

Long time viewer, first time poster!

Can I seek some clarification on a prop that I have had for a number of years?

I suspect it is from a SE5a, and has the following markings:

G1433N54, AB 662 G.R.H. , WOLESLEY VIPER , HISPANO SUIZA , D 2400 P 1750

The prop is un-restored and in great condition. The wood is dark matt and undamaged, the canvas covering on the blades is fully intact but a little discoloured.

(1) Is it off an SE5a?
(2) Roughly when was this prop manufactured, and its ball park value?

Thanks in advance!

[Dave]

Bob Gardner can probably shed more light on this, but I'm beginning to wonder if the factory stamped a series of these incorrectly and ended up selling them off as rejects.

The listings I have for this propeller model (AB662C) show it as being used for a Hisso 200 HP (ungeared) engine, and the model AB662 shown as used for the Wolseley Viper engine and having a pitch of 1800 mm instead of 1750 shown for the "-C" modification.

So if the listings are accurate, the Wolseley designated engine should have a pitch of 1800 and should not have the "C" suffix. In addition, "Wolseley" is misspelled "Wolesley" on your propeller as well as this one currently on eBay. (Hub picture attached.) I don't think the misspelling itself is all that uncommon, but the designation of the Wolseley engine might be enough of an error to reject those props.

Does it look as if it's been mounted? (Look for the impression of the steel hub into the wood - "witness marks".) Can you post a picture?

Also note that there were nearly 50,000 Hispano Suiza engines produced, with a variety of modifications model numbers, the Wolseley Viper being just one of them.

And coincidentally, see this post from yesterday. I don't know if that's a different propeller from the one on eBay, but if it is that's 3 props with the same general stampings showing up within 3 days.

[rower_69]

AB662 Wolseley Viper

Thanks for the prompt response Dave.

I have had my prop for about 10 years, but it has been in my family (it was my Grandfather's) for about 80 years. I know very little about its history other than he did spend time in the Air Force, and it had been displayed in his house for as long as I can remember .

Unlike the prop on eBay that you provided the link to, my prop has only the misspelling of "Wolesley" instead of "Wolseley"; Hispano Suiza is spelt correctly. The variation in stated diameter is interesting though.

There is a slight crushing around the hub so it does appear to have been mounted at some point, but there is minimal wear/damage to the leading edge and canvas. [I am working away from home at the moment but will post a pic at my earliest convenience.]

Maybe Rob can shed some more light on this as you suggested.

Otherwise, thanks again, and keep up the great work guys.

[Bob Gardner]

The word Wolseley is always difficult to spell. I can't type it automatically. I always slow down and type it carefully. It is not suprising that the man who stamped it got it wrong sometimes.

The batch number G1433 dates from November 1919. It was a batch of 100 made by Bristol's prop shop. Yours is number 54. Number 32 was for an unknown aircraft with the Dragonfly engine. So this appears to be a mixed batch ordered by the Govenment.

With kind regards,

Bob

[rower_69]

Ab662

Thanks Bob...just the info I was looking for.

How did you match the batch number to a specific date? Is there a code or is it recorded in a journal somehwere?

And thanks yet again.

[Bob Gardner]

I'm glad to be of help.

There is no list of batch numbers that I have found. Probably one exists in the depths of the Public Record Office at Kew, but I haven't found the correct question to ask yet, to gain access to it. But the records of the Bristol Aircraft Co exist and that's how I know G1433 was made by Bristol for the Government; the batch covered a variety of props made in small numbers.

So, generally, I am slowly constructing my own list from every relevant prop I find, and your data has added a bit to it, for which many thanks!

Its interesting that your prop was made for the SE5A in late 1919. The aircraft was obsolete by then and there were thousands of surplus SE5A props available, so why make one? The answer must be that the RAE was doing some experimental work using an SE5A, or they used it as a hack to get round to various airfields. And the concomitant answer must be that a standard prop wouldn't do, so they had one made with a pitch of 1750mm instead of the usual 1800mm.

With kind regards,

Bob

[rower_69]

1919 SE5a

Once again Bob, Thanks!

You are a wealth of knowledge!

[rower_69]

AB662 SE5a prop

Two final questions Bob;

Is there any way to help preserve the prop (should I oil or wax it) as it currently has a dark matt finish.

Any "guesstimate" on a value that it should be insured for?

Really appreciate the help that you and Dave have provided.

Thanks again.

[Dave]

I'd say that if it is in truly original, unfinished condition that it would realistically be worth at least double what this one sold for on eBay recently, and perhaps more.

[rower_69]

SE5a Prop

Thanks for that Dave.

[Bob Gardner]

Sorry for being slow to respond. I have been de-bugging my PC.

Your prop has two values; sale price and insurance value.

If offered at auction in the UK, your prop would typically sell for £1500 GBP. Auctions are variable and £1500 is a middle price. On a bad day it might be £800 GBP. Conversely, if two enthusiasts bid enthusiastically against each other it could reach £2500 or more. This doesn't happen often, but I see such things about once a year.

Its insurance value is what you would pay for a restored example from a London dealer, this being the accepted criterion by insurance companies; about £3500 GBP.

The best way to conserve your prop is;
lightly clean it with warm soapy water,
let it dry,
polish it with pure bees wax (pure and out of a tin; not from an aerosol from a supermarket because they might have added modern silicones which are too powerful for elderly wood),
wax it again a few days later, including the fabric on the tips, by the way.

I believe you'll be delighted with the transformation.

With kind regards,

Bob

[rower_69]

SE5a Prop

Thanks for that Bob; I will give the bee's wax a go this weekend....

And no problems with the delayed response either, as I was away on business anyway!

Keep up the great work.

[Bob Gardner]

Let us know how you get on with the conservation. If possible post a before and after photograph for fellow forumites to see.

With kind regards,

Bob

[rower_69]

Before and after

Hi Bob,

I finally got around to cleaning and conserving the prop as you advised;

WOW - what a difference...simply cleaning it and then hitting it with several applications of beeswax has transformed it.

I will take a few pics shortly and post on the thread.

Thanks again for your invaluable guidance.

[rower_69]

SE5a Prop

Hi all,

Just continuing on from my earlier post, I visited the RAAF Museum in Melbourne (Australia) this afternoon, and decided to have a look at the prop details on their SE5a.

The details on their prop are VERY close to those stamped on mine - identical in fact apart from the production batch number. It even has the same typo; Wolesley instead of Wolseley!

Anyway, the details if you are interested are as follows:

AB 662 GRH
HISPANO SUIZA
WOLESLEY VIPER
D2400
P1750

G1431N74

I am wondering whether these props may have been part of a consignment of spares for the "Imperial Gift" to Australia from England after the '14-'18 War.

[the Imperial Gift was a consignment of war surplus fighters and trainers from the RFC/RAF and donated to the RAAF as a sign of gratitude for its support during WW1. Approx 20 SE5a's were part of this consignment]

Regards, and once again, keep up the great work!