4 bladed Darroco prop

[Simon Howard]

We have a large 4 blade wooden propeller. It has date markings on each blade,1915,1916,1917,and 1918 inclusive and was made by Darraco Motor Engineering Co, London. There are other markings on the rear of the hub, as follows:

100HP
5068 (stamped, so probably a serial number)
F.E.8 (also stamped)
MONOSOUPAPE GNOME
T 7928

There is a barometer fixed to the hub but is a separate item It is marked ‘Luce Bay Air Station’. A couple of relevant excerpts from my 5 minutes of research:

Luce Bay (aeroplanes) and Luce Bay (airships) came firstly (from 1 July 191 under the control of No. 22 (Marine Operations) Group with HQ at East Fortune, and then (from 12 August 1191 under a new 25 (Marine Operations) Group, HQ Luce Bay. Which had oversight of nine Royal Naval Air Stations in south-west Scotland and Ulster. Within 14 Group ground organisation started with six Coastal Patrol Special Duties Flights (SDF) established on 6 June 1918. 519 and 1520 SDFs at Pembroke, 521 and 522 SDFs at Llangefni and 523 and 124 SDFs at Luce Bay. On 25 July 1918 the six flights came under the umbrella of newly formed 255 Squadron, HQ Pembroke and the first Captain R. R. Soar DSC, a Western Front veteran who had flown planes, Sopwith Camels and Triplane Scouts with 8 Squadron.

One of my ancestors, William Henry Alfred, Viscount Ipswich, (24th July 1884 – 23rd April 191, was a Lieutenant in the 4th Battalion of the Coldstream Guards and then in the RAF during WW1. The entry in Burkes states that he was wounded in WW1, however then states he was killed in an aeroplane accident on 23rd April 1918. So, we think the propeller must be something to do with him.

I understand that it was probably made for the Gnome Monosoupape engine which was made by the French engine manufacturer Gnome et Rhone, and that the letters F.E.8 suggest it came from an engine fitted in a Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.8.

[Dave]

It's identical to this one, having the same drawing number but manufactured by a different manufacturer. (Looks like the link to an FE8 no longer exists, but you can Google FE8 to find photos, etc.)

My guess is that the connection between the propeller and the air station barometer is more likely coincidental than anything, but I don't know that for a fact.

Usually if an aircraft accident was fatal the propeller was destroyed or severely damaged, so I'd be doubtful that that event is related either.

Can you post a photo?

[Simon Howard]

You are a star. I have slightly edited my query as I have received further information from the Imperial War Museum in London. Notwithstanding, this is extremely heplful and I will post a photograph when the prop is cleaned up.

Do we know if the F.E.8 was ever used as a trainer?

[Dave]

The less you "clean it up" the better. See "DON'T RESTORE YOUR PROP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Was the hub cut out for the barometer or does it fit in the native center bore?

[Simon Howard]

I have read same, however I only meant remove layers of dust! Do we know whether the F.E.8 was used as a trainer for the RAF?
I'll get back you on how the barometer is fitted.

[Simon Howard]

Herwith some images.

[Simon Howard]

And 4 more............

[Simon Howard]

There are no permenant fixings for the barometer. Would you like some better photographs? I think I am unfortunately restricted in the size I can post.

[Dave]

Good pictures. That's a great looking prop. When Bob Gardner gets around to this thread he may want some high res photos of any decals or stampings.

The FE8 was primarily a fighter aircraft, but was a little slow. See Wikipedia.

[MWP_Lamar]

I have a combination clock, thermometer and barometer hanging on the wall in my den that is housed in a case of identical design as your barometer. There is no printing on the bezel of mine. Inside the clock is a notation of a clock repair performed in 1915. My point being that your barometer definitely seems to be of the correct period, too.

Lamar

[Simon Howard]

OK. It looks as though I have sparked some interest in this propeller! Just to make things clear;

1. It is not for sale, except for a ridiculous sum!
2. It is a family heirloom
3. I have an acedemic and historical research interest


With the assistance of yourself and others the propeller has been identified with a date, a manufacturer, an engine, and an aircraft, however I am trying to tie it in with a person.

FITZROY / IPSWICH
(Viscount Ipswich)
William Henry Alfred Fitzroy (Viscount Ipswich). Royal Air Force and 5th Battalion Coldstream Guards. Killed in action on 23rd May 1918. Aged 33. Son of 8th Duke of Grafton; husband of Auriol, Viscountess Ipswich, of Whittlebury, Towcester, Northants. Buried: Euston (St. Genevieve) Churchyard, Suffolk.
Additional information from “The War Illustrated”. Viscount Ipswich, killed while flying in England, was the son and heir of the Earl of Euston and grandson of the Duke of Grafton. On the outbreak of war he enlisted in the East Kent Regiment, and shortly afterwards was given a commission in the Coldstream Guards, and went to France in November 1914. In the spring of 1915 he was invalided home with shell shock, but returned to France in the summer of 1916. In the autumn of 1917 he returned to England to train as an observer in the R.F.C., and although considerably above the recognised age-limit, passed onto a pilot’s course, and met his death almost at the end of his period of training.

I have a few unknowns here;

1. What we do not know is whether he died 'in combat', or in 'training'?
Further research is necessary.
2. Did he keep this propeller after de-commisioning and celebrate the plane on which he had to learnt to fly before his death?
Possible.
3. Is this the propeller of the plane in which he was killed.
Unlikely, and I agree with you, except the propeller was mounted in the rear - depends on point 1.

I favour the idea that he trained on this aircraft and that he decided, after it's demise in warfare use in 1917, post its last use in the battle of Messine(?) in France, prior to Paaschendale, that he would grab a trophy and celebrate its short lifespan.

Thoughts please...............

[Simon Howard]

P.S.His father was my mother's father by the former's second marriage, not that that is of any interest!!!!

[Dave]

My experience, and Bob shares this belief as discussed here recently, is that virtually all of the stories that seem to come with these older props are either blatantly erroneous or extremely overstated. There are rare exceptions, of course.

On thing to note here as well. Propellers that have been put into service are clamped tightly at the hub and usually tightened periodically during use to maintain the appropriate torque and therfore tension of the hub. The wood between the hub plates expands and contracts, usually leaving a permanent indentation under the metal plate. This photo shows one example, although it's easier to see from angles other than straight on. Most of the propellers around today survived because they were spares and never actually mounted. The photos of the hub don't show enough detail on yours to make that determination, but look closely for an indentation. I think the Gnome 80 had a metal plate that was 7 1/2 inches, but I'm not sure about that fact.

[Simon Howard]

OK. I concurr with the 'erroneous' stories concept, but the question is, 'why have we got this propeller and what is it's significance?'.
Family information indicates that it came from one particular side of the family, and dates would indicate the connection with the member of the family whose information I have shared with you. To me, there has to be a connection.
Notwithstanding that, I am happy to forward better resolution images to anyone concerned. I think it's a great story, and as we are a tourism magnet with this as one of the items on show, well.....need I say more!!!!

It is important to us to give the correct information, and so far, as I have already said, the technical stuff is there, so its the juicy stuff we have to find out about(all due respect meant to one of my ancestors!).

[Dave]

Remember, there was a time back then when propellers were more like tires, something to be used and consumed and periodically discarded when they had reached the end of their useful life, like flat tires or broken tips. And like tires, there were many spares. The difference was that tires continued to fit rims, but propellers no longer fit the engines that were quickly developed and required new materials and designs (i.e. metal propellers). That left a large number of obsolete wooden propellers that simply had no further usefulness, other than firewood or decoration. The people who had access to these typically were the pilots, mechanics, and others who worked at the airfields.

It's not too hard to imagine that one of these people would bring one home and tell the 6 year old grandson that he got it from the crash of the Red Baron's Fokker. Kid grows up and tells his son that's what grandpa told me, and the story goes on . . .

I'm not saying that any of this applies here, but those of us who have been around these stories have heard way too many implausible ones to believe the typical explanation, no matter how sincere the storyteller seems to be and how much he believes the story he's telling. Absent real documentation, most of these histories are pure speculation and need to be treated that way at face value.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't search for the documentation. It's delightful when we find that one of these stories is actually true.

See this thread, which was started just 4 days ago.