BIG prop and a huge mistery - PLEASE HELP!!!

[princefritzfirst]

Sirs,

I'm writing you with a question and asking for a huge favor/advice.

I recently purchased the propeller pictured below and can't in any way figure out what it is and where it might come from - absolutely nothing! If possible at all, I would like to ask for your expertise in trying to figure out what this might be. As you can see from the pictures it has no markings on it what so ever, the finish is very worn out as if it sat in the sun for a very long time - it was purchased in Los Angeles, and that might be a clue to that part.... Other than it looking very nice and worn out it tells me nothing. Would you be able to help me out and determine, from the pictures and dimensions, what this might be?

I really appreciate any help/advice you can give me.

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,
David

- screws 9/16" or 14mm.

[Dave]

It looks similar, but not necessarily identical, to the "toothpick" style propellers used on the OX5 powered aircraft in the late teens and twenties, such as the JN4 and the Standard J1 (also powered by the Hall Scott engine). The next step is to carefully measure the hub dimensions and compare it to the chart referenced on that page.

It's nice that the metal hub is intact. It might be reasonably valuable if it's an original OX5 hub, although I'm not sure how much those are worth.

[princefritzfirst]

Dear Dave,

Thank you so much for the reply.
I've just done the math and it does point to the Curtiss OX5 measurements except for the center bore, if I'm doing it right, which comes out to 2" not to 2.690". Is the center bore measured on the outside? If yes then it's 2".

So, from all the other numbers given below it seems like it's the OX5 - what do you think? What can you recommend I do to be 100% certain? (I wouldn't want to disassamble the hub if you think that might ruin something or make it less valuable historically....??)
As you can see the finish is completely sun burned...

Thank you very much for your help!!!


- hub thickness: 4"
- hub dia.: 6"
- bolt size: .375
- bolt circle: 5.250

Regards,
David

[Dave]

If you're measuring the diameter of the metal hub it won't reflect the charted measurement of the center hole in the wood. My guess is that's the correct diameter for an OX5 engine and that the prop was used on something powered by that engine, possibly a Jenny.

Personally, I'd leave the hub where it is and not try to improve the finish except perhaps by waxing it. You can only decrease its value by making attempts to improve its appearance.

[princefritzfirst]

Thank you so much!
I've read the "restore" post so no. I would not want to do anything to harm the way it looks now.
Can you recommend any waxes?
What value would you personally put on this propeller?

Thanks!

[Dave]

It's hard to know value in the present marketplace, and I have no idea what the metal hub might be worth, but something in the $1000 range wouldn't be surprising, despite its rather rough condition. Just a wild guess at this point, however. The market is not very large.

[princefritzfirst]

Hi.

$1000 for the whole thing or just the hub?
So this would be from around 1915-1920's - right?

Can you possibly say if there's anything special about this one?
And, what kind of wax should I use?

Thank you kindly!
David

[Dave]

I was thinking the whole thing. There's really nothing special or particularly sought after with that one. The toothpick design was developed to save expense, as many props were destroyed in various training and other activities. It's more likely early twenties and very unlikely to be mid teens. That model was fairly common.

I'd use linseed oil, let it dry and harden a bit, then apply beeswax. Don't expect much change in the appearance, though.

[princefritzfirst]

Great! Thank you very much for all your help!

[oinkitt]

Conservation of prop

I do not recommend using linseed oil. This prop has areas where the finish is missing.

You should first seal the prop with a thin coat of shellac; use a soft paint brush to apply it.

When the shellac dries (1 hour) apply Liberon dark oak wax with a boot polish brush. You may have to apply it reasonably thickly (experiment) Let it harden for 1 hour then polish off the excess.

It should give you a consistent darkish finish.

The finish currently on your prop is caused by the item being left in a hot dry place - maybe a tin shed. We furniture conservers’ call it crocodile finish and people who appreciate original finishes find it very desirable.


Regards,


Adrian

[princefritzfirst]

Adrian,

Thank you so much for the advice!
A couple of quick questions in regards to your suggestions. I really love the way this looks right now and in no way would want to alter the existing finish.

- By using shellac and the wax what exactly will happen with the current finish?, will the crocodile effect disappear?
- What would you recommend on doing to the copper(?) tips. I don't want to polish them to shine.

As I said above, I really would like to keep this the way I found it except to give a some life, protection. I feel like this thing is bone dry and I realize that it needs something.

Thank you,
David

[oinkitt]

Conservation of prop

Hi David,

Thank you for your email.

First I would like to touch on your statement - I feel like this thing is bone dry and I realize that it needs something.

If you like the item the way it is, leave it alone. It doesn’t need anything unless the finish is flaking off.

What I have advised you to do will not change the texture or look of the finish. The coat of shellac is only to seal any areas that have lost their original finish. Your prop has "lost its finish" where the finish is cracked. Applying oil or wax to unsealed timber is a no go in the conservation game. To apply good oil or wax finish on unsealed timber takes many, many hours of work to achieve a deep lustier. The main reason it’s not done is that once you apply oil or wax to an unsealed surface you can’t get it out, and you should never do something that can’t be reversed. If you wanted to colour match an area you would seal the area and apply the colour on top of the sealant, you generally don’t stain directly onto the timber, if you do make sure the stain is lighter than what you want. Colouring is applied on top of sealant so if you don’t get it right or it needs to be changed it is possible to do so.

To recreate the finish you have is pretty near impossible; I don’t know anyone who has been able to do it. I would NEVER suggest removing it or trying to change it!!! If I had something with that finish for sale and I thought the purchaser would remove it, I wouldn’t sell it to them.

In short what I have advised you to do will seal the timber (thinish coat of shellac) and the dark oak wax paste will even out the dark and light spots to be more consistent. Don’t do anything to the copper, don’t put shellac on it, wax will be ok. I strongly suggest LIBERON coloured wax pastes, they are really the best.

If you have a look at the restore your prop post you will see what I did to my prop.


Regards,


Adrian.

[Dave]

Adrian,

I'm learning a lot from your post about this and was unaware of the use of shellac as a sealant, but I may give it a try.

I'm wondering if we can just create a sticky thread containing this post and titled something to the extent of "Protecting an Existing Finish" or something to that extent?

Let me know if that's OK and if you prefer to edit it in any way.

Dave

[oinkitt]

Hi David,

Shellac is a great sealant, its cheap, easy to use, dries quickly, and can be removed if necessary.

I am happy for you to do whatever you like re this post. I am happy to have people contact me re their conservation issues or you might be able to set up a link for them to contact me with all correspondence being attached to the post. Let’s face it the main thing is that people don’t destroy their props and I want to do whatever I can to avoid that happening.

Thanks again for this great site.


Regards,


Adrian.

[princefritzfirst]

Adrian,

Thank you very much for your help!
I've applied the shellac in one thin coat and this huge chunk of wood looks magnificent now! I will send you photos soon. I'm not so sure about putting on the wax anymore....? It looks so good right now and most of the uneven spots, water marks, etc. are pretty much blended.

The one coat brought this thing back to life!

Thanks much!
David