Help Identifying my Dad's Propeller

[UWSP]

My Dad recently passed away. He has a few wooden propellers that he has had mounted on the wall of his den for decades and I am looking for some help in determining what they are.

The first one, we always understood was from a WWI Jenny. It has a liberty decal. As we recall, Dad bought this at a rummage sale in the Midwest US. The person he bought it from said it was his formerly his Dad's and that he worked at the factory. We are thinking this was a propeller that was never used.

I am attaching some photos from my camera phone. If they are not good enough to identify, I can use a better camera next time.

If anyone can help me understand this Propellers history better, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Dave]

I think it was used, based on the impression in the hub (the small circles in between the bolt holes are left there as the wood expands and contracts with the metal hub installed). It also looks as if the hub was cut out a bit for a clock or similar display piece.

The Liberty decals are rare, and were only used for a very short time around 1917.

Can you find any numbers stamped around the hub?

[UWSP]

Thanks for your feedback. I'll have to pull it off the wall to see what numbers may be on the back. We also do have the steel hub that matches to the holes. I don't recall a clock mounted in the hub, but certainly could have been.

It will take me some time to accomplish this and will respond in the next couple of weeks with these numbers.

Thanks

[Dave]

When you're doing that, read this section on hub dimensions then look at the chart linked on that page. It might help narrow it down to one likely engine.

[Dave]

Also, you're not likely to find numbers on the back of the hub. Typically they are stamped either on the front face or on the sides of the hub, and occasionally on the blade itself.

[UWSP]

Numbers on the back

Hello again - I've been able to now see the back of the propeller.


The information is stamped on the back side of the hub. I've loaded a picture for reference. From what I can tell it reads 104x84 300 HP HISP. I'm conflicted about the 300, it may be an 800, hard to tell from the photo.

This propeller is roughly 9' long.

I appreciate your help in identifying this propeller. If you also had an opinion on the value of this for insurance purposes, I would like to know that as well.

[Dave]

It should be 104 inches long, and 84" is the pitch.

Please measure the bolt hole circle diameter. That's the distance between the centers of two bolt holes that are furthest apart across the center of the hub. Usually "HISP" means "Hispano Suiza" engine, but that needs to be confirmed by measurement of the hub. See previous link.

[UWSP]

Thank you for the very quick reply. I measured on the prop itself and it appears to be 6 3/4". I also have the metal hub and have attached a photo for reference.

[Dave]

Well, that's interesting. The Hisso used on the Jenny was not a 300 hp engine, but there were Hisso 8f versions used on later developed bombers and presumably also on some of the large flying boats used by the Navy in the late teens. The normal Hisso hub has a smaller bolt hole circle diameter, but it stands to reason that later higher HP ones might have used a size similar to the Wright A engine, which was about 6 3/4". (The Wright A was a "desendant" of the Hisso.) The decal on yours implies that the prop was made in 1917 or possibly 1918, as Hartzell only made a few different models of props before they were forced to abandon the logo because it infringed on the Liberty engine trademark rights. If you look closely around the hub you may see small stampings with an anchor and the letters "U.S.A." stamped around it. If so, it's likely one of those used in the Navy's flying boat development during that time.

[UWSP]

Thanks Dave for all of the help. Now that you mention it, I do recall my Dad having speculated it could have been from a Flying Boat, although we all were thinking Jenny.

What would be the best way to get the definitive history on this? Write to Hartzell?

[Dave]

Thanks Dave for all of the help. Now that you mention it, I do recall my Dad having speculated it could have been from a Flying Boat, although we all were thinking Jenny.

What would be the best way to get the definitive history on this? Write to Hartzell?

I've written to Hartzell and spoken to Jimmie Reedy, who once worked there and recently wrote a book about the history of the company. They really don't have much information about the early history. He did once tell me that there were only 4 models of propellers that used that decal before they were forced to change it, but he could not find any record of what those 4 props were for. I own two of them, which you can view on this page.

BTW, with respect to insurance value, unfortunately the cutting up of the hub lowers its market value considerably compared to similar props without alterations of any kind. I would guess something in the $500 to $750 range would be reasonable and could be supported in a claim.