1918 Flying Boat Prop Denmark

[Tue]

If it is a tractor propeller and used for a land aircraft, I am guessing that the motor it has been used for is a Thulin 90HP. This would be a great place to start.

If I super impose the picture of my prop on this image it matches beautifully. Even the metal rim fit's.
Thulin_typ_D

Very likely

Södertälje S. W. 17 1917-1924
Thulin, 90 HP


Likely

Caudron 1912-1922
Le Rhone, 60 HP, rotating

Nielsen & Winther Type Aa 1917-1924
Thulin A, 90 HP

[pmdec]

Hi,

.../...
pmdec>
"The prop seems a tractor one, as central bore on extrados is not flared (I am not sure of the right word)."

Could you elaborate on this?

As you can see, central bore on your prop has different ends on "front" and "back". It is due to the shape of metallic parts attached to engine to get the prop properly fitted. I join a sheme of one : first, blue side is fitted to engine axle. After, the prop is mounted. Third, the red plate and bolts. So, except when prop is mounted
- directly mounted on engine crankcase (> very large central bore, no less than 14cm to my knowledge),
- between engine and aircraft (no more in use in 1918, I think),

in all ather cases (rotating engine or not), to my knowledge :
- when enlarged bore is same side than propeller intrados (as yours), it is a tractor prop,
- when enlarged bore is same side than propeller extrados, it is a pusher prop.

Good research !

Regards,
PM

[Tue]

Hi pmdec

I really appreciate the info, it has helped me alot.

Unfortunately I still need to find the correct HUB meassurements for several engines before I can narrow my search.

Does either Bob or you have engines in your database which has not been updated on this site?

[pmdec]

Hi,

I have no French prop with your hub measurements (in more than 1000 data lines). The only 65mm central bore I heard of is a Chauvière serial 3095 with a diameter of 3m40 and I don't know its destination. It is from a database which have many errors. In this range of diameter I have many props with 60mm (many for hubs "type B") and with 70mm (many for hubs "type C"), but only 3 between (1 with 65mm and 2 with 68mm).

In 1918, I think metallic hubs dimensions were imposed by military, so they were different in each country. Your measurements are clearly metric, but they are not French.
For me, the only reliable data I found were in official archives.

I think you have to turn to military archives, but which ones?

I there is not archives, you can just made a guess for the engine power, and it will be impossible to know about the aircraft : that often happens !
In other hand, your guess about Thulin type D seems a good one ...

Regards,
PM

[Tue]

Your information really does point in the direction that this prop. was made for an aircrat tailored by the danish army.

In this forum I got the measurements for a Le Rhone type C HUB, on which basis I am ruling out aircrafts with a Le Rhone 60HP and a Gnome 80HP rotary engine.

This does really leave me with two aircrafts using a Thulin engine. One of these aircrafts have been made as a replica by a Danish museum, which I have contacted. All I can do now is wait.

There is also an aircraft with an Angus 140HP engine, but it seams too powerfull for my 2500mm prop? I have already discarded a Mercedes 120HP on that basis. The pictures I have found of these aircrafts all show a propeller of approx. 3m, measured to the men standing next to.

If I do find a match to the Thulin engine and get a confirmation that T.V does stand for Tøjhuseværkstederne. The next challenge is to indentify the planes, cause they themselves looks custom made, prob. not even based on a license.

[Tue]

Just a note to myself:

Som berättades i SFT 1/06 köptes ett flygplan av typ Nielsen & Winther Type Ab av den danske flygaren Albert Jarfelt. I maj 1919 besökte han AETA för att besiktiga den nya Thulinmotor som skulle monteras i planet. Leverans av flygplanet skedde till Buenos Aires och där kom det att användas vid en privat flygskola som drevs av Jarfelt. Flygplanets motor torde ha ingått bland dem som levererades av AETA till Nielsen & Winther i Köpenhamn och faller därför under exporten till Danmark.

http://www.artiklar.z-bok.se/Thulin.html


More about NW:

In August 1916 the tool company Nielsen & Winther opened an "Aeroplanafdeling" (aeroplane departement) on the Island Amanger next to Copenhagen where also the Orlogsværftet was located. Technical director became engineer H. Funch-Thomsen who was employed by Hansa-Brandenburg before.

First own designes were:
N&W Typ Aa - Nieuport-style single-seat fighter (Thulin rotary)
N&W Typ Ab - two-seater developement of the Typ Aa (Thulin rotary)
N&W Typ Ac - floatplane single-seater developement of Typ Aa (Thulin rotary)
N&W Typ Bd - challenge plane with 110 hp Scania-Vabis (Benz-'copy' not Daimler)

The machine, built in 1918, was sold to the Norwegian Navy beeing the first danish aircraft export. It has been wrecked in April 1919 already.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/ai...nge-663-a.html



Söndertäljen:

Södertelje Verkstäders Aviatikavdelning was situated in Södertälje in Sweden.

The aircraft started out as the Svenska Aeroplanfabriken H-2, four were ordered by the Swedish Marine on floats in December 1915, but SAF was closed down in February 1916 and was taken over by SW. The first aircraft was delivered in May 1916, but was never accepted because of poor performance, even if modifications were made up to February 1917. In August 1917 SW closed down its aviation department and the remains were sold to Thulin and the designation was changed to Thulin F, a name earlier used for an unfinished project, and in November the dismantled parts of the four aircraft were sold to Denmark, but only two were assembled.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/ai...nge-246-a.html


Thulin = Le Rhone:
De skriver att motorerna "hade byggts på licens i Sverige av Thulinfirman och vid ett tillfälle lagrades omkring 700 i Adlershof". En del plan hade 110 hk Oberursel (också en kopia av Le Rhône), men "den Thulin-byggda motorn föredrogs, eftersom det material den var byggd av sades vara överlägset hemmaprodukten".

Om man sammanställer tillverkningsnummer för motorer av typ Thulin A och G framgår att av de cirka 500 tillverkade Thulin A-motorerna (Högsta kända tillverkningsnummer: A497) gick cirka 300 till Holland och omkring 100 användes i Danmark och Sverige. Ytterligare ett antal användes av AETA. Av de G-motorer som byggdes (tillverkningsnummer: G1001-G1055) levererades 40 till Holland.

[peterjane]

Danish flying boat

You have asked a question about a propeller that was mounted to a flying boat that my grandfather's brother Lt.Axel Hoeck flew for the Danish navy.I have pictures and a logbook.Sadly he was killed during a flight (1914 I think), when during a turn the wing folded and the aircraft crashed into a pier. It was very exciting to see the additional pictures of the aircraft posted on this site, since I for several years have tried to find more pictures.I have 2, both of Axel Hoeck and his plane.If you have more info. I will be very interested!
Peter Petersen

[Tue]

Hi PeterJane

Thanks for sharing...that is one interesting tale.

Unfortunately my suspicion that the prop does not originate from the flying baot Maagen, was confirmed byt the Technical Museum in Denmark.

The Technical Museum in Denmark have a replica of the N.W military aircraft with an original Thulin engine, which I had a strong hunch would fit my propeller. They were kind enough to measure the boreholes and there is a match.

So now I am confident that my propeller is not from a Marine aircraft but belonged to one of the Danish Military aircrafts at the time and most likely Södertälje S. W. 17 which had the same engine as the N.W but was the only aircraft manufactured by Tøjhuseværkstedet T.V.

The Nielsen & Winther Type AA was the only other aircraft from the same period wiith a matching engine, but this aircraft was build by A/S Nielsen & Winther Aeroplanfabrik probably marked A.S.

So I think I have found my aircraft, all I need now is more concrete proof like an invoice or something.

I would still love to share information, and see if I can help you in the right direction. Does your logbook show which Maagen aircraft he flew, there are more than one you see )

Best Regards, Tue