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Frank P.
11-14-2017, 03:09 PM
Hallo i am Frank Peters from Hamburg 45 Years old and i just registered on this

beautiful site for getting some help in identifying my prop (if hopefully possible).

I hope Bob Gardener will have a look ,perhaps this prop is interesting for his

research and books of German WW1 Props.;)

The readable stamps are:ST155(pitch),1364?,100Ps(think Argus V4 or DB

engine) and REP ? ,XXXX something overwritten maybe...

Diamater is 266cm ,6 Bolt,(boltcircle diameter 135mm),6 laminates

On one blade you can see a kind of contours of an missing emblem or wappen.

Hope somebody can help me for wich plane this prop was used and of course if it is worth something...

now some pictures
Bye Frank

Dbahnson
11-19-2017, 06:49 AM
I've been hoping that Bob Gardner would respond, but now I recall that he may be travelling and unable to for the moment.

I've sent him an email, but we may just need to be patient for a response.

Bob Gardner
11-19-2017, 12:54 PM
Grüssen Frank; and Greetings Dave; and bonjour Pierre Michel as well!

I apologise for my absence. I have had a second decompression operation, this time on my lower spine, about eight weeks ago. I had become incapable of walking. Now I can walk moderately well, although I still need a stick. My surgeon advises that improvement will continue slowly up to the three month point, as the compression of my spinal cord slowly expands. Sadly my arthritic spine is not repairable.

I believe it is likely that this prop was made by the German subsidiary of the French Integrale company a few months after WW1 began, when the company had been taken over by the German authorities. Here is my reasoning.

The dimensions of Durchmesser 2660mm and Steigung of 1440mm are typical of propellers made for the 70ps 4 Zylinder and the 100ps 6 Zylinder Mercedes engines and date from August 1914 to early in 1915. Production was limited to the handful of prop makers which existed in Germany at the onset of war. I have recorded examples made by Anker and Garuda for early B1 aircraft such as the Alb Doppeldecker (B 1, B 11a) and the LVG B III. The known serial numbers for props made by these companies are 1738, 1787, 1827.

Integral made a prop of D 2600 and St 1550 for a 100ps 6 Zyl Mercedes engine, with prop serial number of 2362. Your serial number is 1364. I have also recorded examples with diameter and pitch the same as yours, D2660 St 1550.

I should add that in the first few months of WW1 props for 100ps engines were often stamped BENZ MERC and sometimes one of these names was over-stamped. I think on your prop the word over-stamped is BENZ.

The final clue is that after the German expropriation of the French subsidiary company, Integral props were stamped DRP for the Deutsches Reichspatent, an indication that the company and the prop were now German, and perhaps with a hint of legality for the take-over! The letters DRP were stamped where you have REP stamped and in the same style. I haven't seen REP stamped before. It is moderately common to find errors in the stamping of German WW1 propellers, more so than with other nationalities. The letters REP have two thirds of the letters DRP, although not in the correct order. Prop makers in both Germany and Britain found production of propellers much hindered by the enlistment of men from their workforce called up to fight. Those left were old and sometimes of few brain cells. Perhaps the least able were illiterate and given the stamping job.

mit freundliche Grüssen,

Bob

Frank P.
11-19-2017, 02:09 PM
Hallo Bob guten Abend!..Thank you Dave !

For first let me say :healthiness is the most important thing we need ...

You don't have to apologise ,when we are ill ,or have something to "repair"in our

body, the normal life has to wait !

The more happy i am, you answered my question so fast, despite suffering from your

Operation! Thanks a lot!!!!

I really must say reading your text was a wonderful experience for me ,never believed getting so much information about my prop!
What all the people say is true, i think ,you are the best!!!

Reading the text made me "goose bumps" I swear !Feeling back in the 1900.....

Specially your explanation in ´the end ".... few brain Cells from the people left"

,made me with a grin;)

So far ,many thanks again !

Perhaps "REP" means just "REichsPatent......


At least ,a good friend of mine asked me ,if i would sell the prop to him...

What do you think would be a fair price for selling from one friend to another?

But it is not so important ,i looks much more better in my Living room !!;)

I hope my English was understandable enough ..thanks a lot Bob!

Bye Frank

Bob Gardner
11-20-2017, 06:11 AM
Frank,

Thank you for your kind wishes, which I much appreciate.

Perhaps "REP" means just "REichsPatent...... Yes! What an excellent insight. Thank you. This might suggest that the prop was made very soon after the outbreak of the war, before DRP became standardised on propellers.

A good friend of mine asked me if I would sell the prop to him...What do you think would be a fair price for selling from one friend to another?
The insurance value of your prop is around €2000, which is what a similar prop would sell for at auction, but it is unlikely that you could find one with the possible history we may have deciphered.

Tschüß,

Bob

Bob Gardner
11-20-2017, 06:28 AM
Frank; An afterthought. If you want more information on Integral propellers you might wish to buy one of my books, German Propellers Part Two which has forty nine pages describing firstly the Integrale Deutsche-Luftschraube GmbH and then the company which it became in 1916, the Imperial Propellerwerke GmbH. The book also describes other makers and is 180 pages long.

The book costs £45.61 including postage and packing but I shall be delighted to give you a discount. If this idea appeals, let me know and I will bill you through PayPal.

mfG

Bob

pmdec
11-20-2017, 06:48 AM
Hi Bob,

Nice to know you are on the way to healing!

Just (for my database) a question about the 2600 millimeters Chauvière with a 1550 pitch you wrote about: it does exist a serial 2311 with these dimensions. Are you sure about serial 2362 measurements?

Best wishes!
Pierre-Michel

Bob Gardner
11-20-2017, 07:01 AM
Bonjour mon Ami!

Thank you for your kind wishes.

The serial number is 2362. A gentleman in Austria sent me several photos of his Integral prop, also stamped for an Alb Doppeldecker.

Does this mean you have recorded serial 2361?

With kind regards,

Bob

pmdec
11-20-2017, 07:28 AM
Hi Bob,

I have edited my post while you were writing: it is 2311, not 2361 as I first wrote!
Serial 2311 is officially recorded for Caudron G3 with a length of 260 cm, 155 cm pitch and a blade 240 mm width.
Generally speaking, Chauvière gave same serial number for same sized props, with sometimes one more digit for minor modifications, that is, for example, 2316 for a 260 cm prop with a 180 cm pitch and 250 mm blade width and 23161 for 260 cm length (same), 180 cm pitch (same) and 260 mm blade width (10 mm more).

But the German factory might have not proceed exactly as the French one.

Best regards,
PM

Bob Gardner
11-20-2017, 07:41 AM
Ta Marrah! (Merci mon Ami in Yorkshire dialect).

Bob

Frank P.
11-22-2017, 02:21 PM
Hallo Bob !
Your afterthought is the same as mine ...

I was wondered for a long time wich part of your books would fit the best for my prop.
So i would appreciate to buy the suggested part 2 of your books !!

Lets make the deal on private message so you get address ...

Good evening

Frank

Frank P.
12-11-2017, 02:03 PM
Hello Bob ! The Book arrived safely in Hamburg.:D

Very interesting with lot pictures..

Thank you very much ..

Happy Christmas!!

Bye Frank

Bob Gardner
12-13-2017, 07:30 AM
Thank you for your comments on my book, Frank. I particularly like my book on German props going to Germany!

Ich wünsche Ihnen frohe Weihnachten und ein gutes neues Jahr !

mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Bob

Frank P.
01-13-2018, 01:05 PM
I am glad two Bob!

Happy new year and congratulations for your 12 Years anniversary!

Bye Frank