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Bob Gardner
04-16-2016, 01:02 PM
A forum member, Gert de Leeuw, is selling his collection of 47 propellers at auction at Dominic Winter in England on 12 & 13 May. The catalogue will be on the website www.dominicwinter.co.uk. in the near future. I'll advise when it appears.

Initially all will be offered as one lot with an estimate of 50,000-80,000 GBP. If they fail to sell as one lot, they will be offered individually (where 50,000 divided by 47 suggests reserves starting at about 1100.00), although prices are likely to vary widely from a four-bladed prop to one or two prop remnants comprising a hub and blade roots.

I think Gert bought some of his props from me. More important is that I have visited him several times to photograph and record all his props and many of them appear in my books on British and German WW1 Propellers.

With kind regards,

Bob

Dbahnson
04-16-2016, 09:44 PM
Bob, is there a link to the auction items? I couldn't find one on the page you hyperlinked.

Bob Gardner
04-17-2016, 04:29 AM
Oh!

Dave, you are right; there is no catalogue on view. Their press release appears to have jumped the gun. I assume it will appear in the next few days.

I have updated my announcement above.

Bob

lion65
04-17-2016, 03:37 PM
Hello Bob and Dave,

I posted an article about the auction in the category selling . Forum members can send me a private message, so they can already receive my catalog of the propellers. And Bob, thank you for posting.

Kind regards,
Gert

lion65
04-18-2016, 06:19 AM
Hello forum members and interested,

In addition to the auction of the propellers 12-13 May are also auctioned numerous historic First World War aviation books. Including German, French and English books. A number of rare books on propellers and construction of propellers, and a number of historical books about the early days of aviation.

Kind regards,
Gert

Bob Gardner
04-18-2016, 02:53 PM
Hello Gert!

Will you be at the auction? Perhaps we can meet there. Are you coming to GB by boat or aircraft? If aircraft, I'll pick you up if you wish.

I much regret that I couldn't buy all of these myself. My buying and selling days are over. They are a superb collection. And it is a great pleasure to have seen your collection and to use examples to illustrate my books, for which many thanks.

For fellow forumites, I would mention that this is a superb collection. By superb I do not necessarily mean in as-new condition. The scope and range of the collection is impressive. Some, a few I think, are restored. Most are in original condition. Gert, correct me if I'm wrong.

I do not know of a better collection in the Northern Hemisphere. Most museum collections consist of piles of propellers gathering dust; often half a century of dust. I believe Peter Jackson in NZ has the best collection, all mounted on a wall, I believe. I think Gert has the next best.

If any forumites wishes to bid in absentia I shall be delighted to help by bidding on your behalf and by arranging shipping. Although I have stopped buying and selling props my shipper who has shipped many for me still retains his skills.

With kind regards,

Bob

lion65
04-19-2016, 10:02 AM
Hello Bob!

I am present at the auction, nice to meet you there!
I come with my car to England, then I'm more mobile, I want to visit some aviation museums.
No thanks, you too have often provide me with valuable information about propellers!
I do not know anyone who knows more about World War One propellers than you.
And your books on First World propellers are real works of reference, very valuable!
Thank you for your compliments and your words of praise, I feel honored!
You tell it correctly, a few propellers from the collection have been restored, but most are in original un-restored condition. Very kind of you to want to help interested people in bidding and shipping the propellers, thank you very much in advance!

Kind regards,
Gert

Bob Gardner
04-25-2016, 11:23 AM
At last the catalogue is available at www.dominicwinter.co.uk. It is part of the 156 page catalogue of the Collecters' Sale of Friday 13 May 2016.

You can view it on line and download it in hi-res or lo-res pdf format.

Good Luck

Bob

Bob Gardner
05-15-2016, 08:47 AM
The sale of the WW1 propeller collection of fellow-forumite Gert de Leeuw took place on Friday 13 May, at the auction house of Dominic Winter in England.

Forty-seven WW1 propellers were offered for sale, many of them particularly rare and interesting. They were predominantly German with a few British, French and Dutch.

Eighteen failed to sell, 38%, and twenty-nine sold, 61% (ignoring decimal places). Bringing a large specialist collection to auction has always been regarded in the antique trade as risky.

The prices achieved were low, often at or around the reserve figure, resulting in some bargains. A four bladed British FE2B prop sold for a hammer price of 2300. With the auctioneer's commission of 23.40% this rises to 2838. By contrast a dealer on eBay is offering a similar sort of four-bladed prop for just under 9000, about three times as much. Unsurprisingly it has been on eBay for some time and has not sold.

As an aside, eBay was once a place where bargains could be found. The uncertainty of eBay, (buying from someone unknown, buying something you could not properly inspect and the fear of fakes and misrepresentation) led to much lower prices being realized. These constraints still apply but some eBayers now ask for prices comparable to those of a reputable dealer with a shop.

Bob Gardner

pmdec
05-18-2016, 08:37 AM
Hi,

Is it possible to know the prices asked for the ones which were withdrawn? I have found the list of withdrawn ones (on Dominic Winter site) but without the "starting" price:
Herewith the following lots have been withdrawn
621-662, 673, 674, 675, 676, 678, 679, 681, 682, 683, 685, 686, 687, 689, 691, 692, 695, 699, 788, 789, 886, 1052, 1064, 1068, 1069, 1070, 1071, 1075, 1076, 1077, 1120

Regards,
PM

F.D.M
05-18-2016, 08:58 AM
Hi PM,

None of the propellers from the collection in question were withdrawn. The original estimates can still be found in the pdf catalogue on the Dominic Winter's site.

Edit:
What do you actually mean by 'asking price'?
The starting bid price?

Regards,

pmdec
05-18-2016, 11:08 AM
Hi,

Sorry for my bad wording and my erroneus number list wich are withdrawn objects and not the "not sold ones" ...

Some of the propellers didn't sold: they are the missing numbers of the realised prices list (MIL16A prices realised.pdf on the D Winter site) between 896 and 943.

I was interested by the starting bid prices of those 18 (number given by Bob) "not sold" (if nobody bid) or by the higher bid if there was a "reserve" price .

Regards,
PM

F.D.M
05-18-2016, 11:28 AM
In the regular Dominic Winter catalogue (24_dw_13) you can find the estimates. The starting bid prices can not be retrieved as far as I know. It is my belief that those prices are determined live by the auctioneer at the auction since those opening bid prices differ from the on-line minimum bid prices. However, I am unfamiliar with the proces and I can be wrong.

Regards,

pmdec
05-18-2016, 01:20 PM
Hi,

Thank you for your answer. What you said about opening prices is also my understanding, so I hope(d?) that somebody took notes of those opening prices: if there was no "reserve" price, habitually, the auctioneer "takes out" the object if there is no bid at opening price. Sometimes, he tells a lower price trying to make the bids begin, and only after this he takes the object out.

Regards,
PM

Bob Gardner
05-19-2016, 08:28 AM
Bonjour Mon Ami,

The convention is that the lower figure in the guide prices represents the reserve; thus a prop catalogued as 700-1000 has a reserve price of 700. Bids below this will be rejected. 700 is the starting price. The bracket of 700-1000 is the auctioneers guide to what the prop might sell for. Almost all auction houses state very low prices, which no one really believes. They are intended to seduce people like me to come to the auction in the hope of a bargain! The hammer price refers to the successful bid, to which the auctioneers' premium is added. At Dominic Winter it is 23.40% which includes VAT. Therefore a successful bid of 2000 will result in the buyer paying the auctioneer 2468.

Gert tells me that eighteen props did not sell. Five have sold after the sale. Three more will probably sell and the auction house has received several more enquiries.

If any forumites wish to buy any of those remaining, they should ring Dominic Winter's as soon as possible or email them. 01285 860006 (the international code is +44). info@dominicwinter.co.uk

With kind regards,

Bob

F.D.M
05-19-2016, 01:18 PM
Thanks for your clarification on auctions!

Regards,

lion65
05-20-2016, 05:24 AM
Good morning all,

Soon I will be publish a list of all sold propellers and the yield per propeller. In the section 'Selling' I posted a list of until now unsold propellers. There are a number of rare German propellers by (the interest is high).

With kind regards,
Gert

lion65
05-22-2016, 07:16 PM
Hello forum members and interested,

the last 14 propellers are offered for sale this week.
Most are rare and unique German WW1 propellers.
There are also a number of historical and rare books on propellers for sale.

If you are interested, please contact me (send me a private message) for comprehensive information on the propellers.

Sales take place at Dominic Winter Auctioneers.
http://www.dominicwinter.co.uk/
or email them, info@dominicwinter.co.uk
01285 860006 (the international code is +44).

With kind regards,

Gert
Netherlands

pmdec
05-22-2016, 07:29 PM
Hi,

Thank you Bob for your explanation. In France, the beginning price is often largely lower than the lower estimation price, except for auctions where there is very small price variation possibilities ("standard" gold jewels, for example, which sell from their weight).

@lion65: yes, I was surprised that the German props didn't sell. Perhaps they suffer from cost transport to USA?
I have discussed of your collection with my "colleagues", but we are not in the way of buying anything else that French ones until our collection (quite completed for the 14-18 era), will include a panel of metalic propellers (fixeed and variable pitch) from the 30's AND more pre-WW1 ones (we have only six brands). The only exception would be a Hamilton in original state with the "banana" decals...

Regards,
PM

lion65
05-23-2016, 09:43 AM
Hello PM,

there is only one French propeller left over, a Levasseur for the Dorant AR1 plane from about 1918. Unfortunately I have not the Hamilton propeller...

Kind regards,
Gert

pmdec
05-24-2016, 03:25 PM
Hi,H.../... Unfortunately I have not the Hamilton propeller...

Kind regards,
GertIt was the first thing I looked for when I received your list!

I have bought two (one and half, in fact!) German ones 6 monthes ago, with the hope to have an exchange with someone who has a Hamilton... but I have not still picked up them... It is why I was attentive at the prices of yours... And I am a little disappointed by them!

About the Levasseur, we have three of them: one "like new" from 1917 (serial 586 for SPAD 13), one in poor state of the same era and one half destroyed but from ~1911 (serial 134 with large blades scimitar shaped and the first Levasseur decals and stamps).

Regards,
PM