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denkeinerkennt
07-08-2015, 06:12 AM
Hi I'm new heir in the forum and have the same time a question.
In Germany we have a well-preserved propeller from Behrens & Rüggebercht I20
Search and contact information for an eventual sale, can someone help me there.

Many Thanks,
Torsten

Bob Gardner
07-08-2015, 08:56 AM
'Morgan Torsten,

We need details of the data stamped on the hub and/or on the blade and photographs. This maker made props during WK1 from 1913 to 1918.

mit freundliche Grüssen,

Bob

denkeinerkennt
07-09-2015, 06:10 AM
Good morning,
here are photos from the propeller.

Best Regards,
Torsten

Bob Gardner
07-10-2015, 09:31 AM
Torsten,

Excellent photographs. This is a superb prop. But to identify which aircraft and motor it came from we need to know the data stamped on the upper surface of the hub, the opposite side to the name of B & R, which appears to be close to the ceiling! Good luck.

Bob

denkeinerkennt
05-31-2016, 08:57 AM
Hello Bob,
I would have possibly a buyer, you have an approximate price which one could ask for.?
Thank you very much,
Torsten

Dbahnson
05-31-2016, 05:10 PM
Torsten, it's unrealistic to expect an accurate valuation of any item that isn't fully and clearly described to the person doing the evaluation. In this case it appears that some data is missing. I also note what appears to be a major blemish in the hub (carved out for a clock or similar device).

See this page (http://woodenpropeller.com/Values.html) for some perspective.

Bob Gardner
06-01-2016, 08:39 AM
'Morgen Torsten,

Am I correct in thinking that your forum name den keiner kennt means that you are Mr Anonymous? Or does it mean he who knows nothing?

Valuing propellers is always difficult. There is never a simple answer to this simple question, so in some respects we also know nothing! Your prop does not have a fixed value. It is worth what someone is willing to pay you and what you are willing to receive.

Behrend und Rüggerbrecht were Berlin makers, in existence from 1912-c1918. The prop appears to be in excellent restored condition. The hub centre has been cut out to accommodate a clock or some-such, but this is typical of many WW1 propellers. Had this not been done the propeller may not have survived for a hundred years! An irony we have to live with! And a cabinet-maker could make an almost invisible repair.

My guess is that the prop would sell at auction for around €1200/$1200. B ü R were Berlin makers, in existence from 1912 to c1918 and are so rare that it is unlikely that you or the buyer would ever find another for sale.

We do need to know the data on the hub, which is likely to be on the top of the hub, near the ceiling, in your photo. The word STAND is visible and indicates the test revolutions which the prop had to reach, here 1370 rpm which suggests a Mercedes 160ps engine. If so, the diameter of the propeller will be between 2730 - 2800mm and the pitch 17-1800mm. Such props by this maker are known to have been fitted to the LVG C II and the Friedrichshafen FF46, called the D II by Idflieg.

Mit freundliche Grüssen,

Bob

denkeinerkennt
06-01-2016, 09:35 AM
Hi Bob y Dbahnson , the name gillt rather for "unknown"
Thanks for this useful information. I thought already that you do not exactly
can say a price, and it is difficult to do this through photos, thank you.
I'm the day in Germany and look at times on top for the rest of the data.
Many greetings,
Torsten
> Googeltranlate <
(my English is not good)8-)

denkeinerkennt
06-14-2016, 06:20 PM
Hello,
I have now attached the missing data, photo attached.
I hope you can tell me more data about the propeller.
Thank you very much

Bob Gardner
06-16-2016, 06:16 AM
Good Morning Torsten,

Thank you for this data. It is a puzzle and I have not recorded any propeller intended for the 150ps Benz engine with these dimensions. Most propellers for this engine have a diameter (Durchmesser) of 2700-2750mm, like yours, but the pitch, (Steigung), is around 1750mm, not the 2000mm stamped on yours.

Your propeller was made for the Army, Die Fliegertruppen. The Imperial Navy were a major user of the Benz 150ps engine but the nature of their aircraft required an even smaller pitch, usually around 1580mm.

B u R also made propellers for the 150 Benz engine used by the Austrian army. I don't have any records of these propellers.

I regret I cannot help.

With friendly greetings,

Bob

Bob Gardner
06-17-2016, 10:40 AM
An afterthought. I have been wondering why I can't find any other propeller for the Benz engine with the dimensions shown on your prop.

Here is my line of thought.

The serial number on your prop, 8384, is near the end of the B u R production run and therefore dates from late 1917 and 1918.

These dimensions (D2750 St2000) are well known on propellers fitted to the Mercedes D IIIa engine of 160ps which was widely used on German aircraft and came into use in late 1917; examples are props made by Anker for the Albatros CL II, and the Fokker DVII; by Garuda for the Albatros D II and D Va; and by almost every other German propeller maker for similar aircraft.

Of note is that the Imperial War Museum in Duxford, England own a propeller made by B u R with the identical dimensions of 2750/2000mm which is marked for the 160ps Mercedes D IIIa.

Your prop is stamped for the 160ps Benz engine, where the number 6 is overstamped. This occurs often where a prop designed for the 110ps Benz was fitted to the uprated Benz 150ps engine. 110ps is overstamped to read 150ps Benz. There was no such engine as a 160ps Benz.

A possible explanation is that 160ps is correct but that it applies to the Mercedes D IIIa engine and that the word Benz was never changed to Mercedes. If so your propeller was used on famous WW1 German fighter aircraft. Errors do occur in the data stamped on WW1 German Propellers.

In parentheses, I should add that Lamberton & Cheesman record that the Benz 200ps engine was experimentally tried on the Fokker D VII, with no success, so we can dismiss any thought that your prop refers to this engine.

With kind regards,

Bob

denkeinerkennt
06-17-2016, 01:05 PM
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the complete info.
It helped me alot.
Many greetings, Torsten