View Full Version : 2745904

06-11-2015, 10:45 AM
have had for some time part of a early propeller with an helic eclar symbol
here is att pics. can anybody give me information on this prop

06-11-2015, 12:21 PM
Eclair props usually also hand a logo stamping in addition to the decal. That may be a later design, although the shape seems to be " early".

06-11-2015, 04:57 PM

This decal is very interesting! Could you send me a large close up by mail?
Is there any marking remaining near the foot of the blade? Could you post pics of all the sides of the foot?
Do you know which wood it is made of?

Many questions, but the matter is interesting:

The history of Éclair propellers name is not completly understood (at least by me!). Traditionally, Éclair propellers were "invented" by Marcel Bloch (who became Marcel Dassault after WW2) and Henry Potez. It is what is written in the Marcle Dassault' book "Le Talisman" and also in the pages of Dassault Internet site (for example there: http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/passion/aircraft/military-bloch-aircraft/eclair-propeller/).
The trouble is that there was other people who were selling propellers under "Éclair" brand name before, as it is proven by "Le Didot-Bottin" (kind of directory book, half the way between phone book and professional directory, edited each year from 18xx.): Three people who seem not related to Bloch nor Potez nor Hirch Minckès (who made the well known Éclair propellers from 1916 to 1919 or 1920 in his furniture workshop) are advertising Hélices Éclair in 1911, 1912 and 1913 Didot-Bottin editions... Perhaps they sold (or give?) the brand name to Bloch and Potez? Or to Hirch?
For the record, the future Bloch wife was a daughter of Hirch Minckès (who made the Éclair propellers for Marcel and Henry). Or perhaps the reverse: Marcel give "his" props to be made by the father of his girlfriend? :D

Your decal shape did appear in an Official Brand Deposit record in 1916, with the other much well known (see there for example: http://forum.aviation-ancienne.fr/t7014p15-recherche-indication-sur-helice-ancienne-bois ).

BUT: On your blade, I don't know if it is a late or an early use of Éclair decal. And would be very intersted in knowing that! Dave thinks it could be an early use from the shape of the blade. The varnish color was the one in use from 1915 to 1919, and so is not a clue.


Bob Gardner
06-13-2015, 10:43 AM
Most interesting! I have not seen that decal before despite a quarter of a century researching WW1 aircraft props (although I should add that my interest is in British and German props and I know little about French props. PM is the expert in this field.)

Could you please also email me a hi-res copy of the decal. aeroclocksatbtinternetdotcom, written thus in the hope of evading spam bots who manage to send me up to twenty spam emails a day.

With kind regards,