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pascaltf
01-25-2014, 02:34 PM
I hope that someone can help me. I bought a propeller and want to know what kind of propeller it is, how old and aspecialy from which plane it is. It's a Merville, is 2,5 m long and has 2 id tags on it.

http://imageshack.us/a/img32/9859/kvoq.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img203/5193/s8io.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img23/7641/vci7.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img46/3958/6vso.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img89/9853/ow86.jpg

Thank you for your help

pmdec
01-25-2014, 06:04 PM
Hi,

This prop was for a Morane Saulnier MS-500 "Criquet" produced in France, probably a civilian version.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morane-Saulnier_MS.500 and go to the French Production section)
and: http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=8284
and : http://www.avionslegendaires.net/avion-militaire/morane-saulnier-ms-500-criquet/

The prop is a wooden propeller, covered with kind of fiberglass and painted.
825 A1 is the design serial and PROTECHL is about the fiberglass protection.

From its serial number (16469) it was made at the end of 1953.

Regards,
PM

pascaltf
01-25-2014, 06:37 PM
Thank you very much for your answer.
Now I know which plane it's from.
Do you maybey have any idea of value of the propeller?

It's not that I want to sell him but I need it for my insurance 👍


Hi,

This prop was for a Morane Saulnier MS-500 "Criquet" produced in France, probably a civilian version.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morane-Saulnier_MS.500 and go to the French Production section)
and: http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=8284
and : http://www.avionslegendaires.net/avion-militaire/morane-saulnier-ms-500-criquet/

The prop is a wooden propeller, covered with kind of fiberglass and painted.
825 A1 is the design serial and PROTECHL is about the fiberglass protection.

From its serial number (16469) it was made at the end of 1953.

Regards,
PM

pmdec
01-26-2014, 08:54 AM
Hi,

I don't think you have to care for insurance about this prop, except if they are particularly looked for in Holland. In my small database I have 6 of them I saw for sale at prices going to 2000€, but the true sold prices were from 450 to 600€. This is one:
http://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/297193159.htm?ca=12_s
is for sale for more than 4 years now. First ad I have stored for it (8/2009) was priced 2000€ and ad after ad it went down to 850 in may 2012. On the most recent ads, there is no price and the owner ask for a "reasonable one".
As you can see, the prop is in perfect shape, like yours.

Regards,
PM

pascaltf
01-27-2014, 06:48 PM
It's not that I want to sell him but I'm putting it op on the wall and if something happens I know what to say against the insurance company 😉.
But thank you for your answer.

Ps: I'm finding my prop look much better than the one how is for sale 😄.
It only needs a little more cleaning.



Hi,

I don't think you have to care for insurance about this prop, except if they are particularly looked for in Holland. In my small database I have 6 of them I saw for sale at prices going to 2000€, but the true sold prices were from 450 to 600€. This is one:
http://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/297193159.htm?ca=12_s
is for sale for more than 4 years now. First ad I have stored for it (8/2009) was priced 2000€ and ad after ad it went down to 850 in may 2012. On the most recent ads, there is no price and the owner ask for a "reasonable one".
As you can see, the prop is in perfect shape, like yours.

Regards,
PM

pmdec
01-27-2014, 07:30 PM
Hi,


Ps: I'm finding my prop look much better than the one how is for sale 😄.
It only needs a little more cleaning.

You are right, the one on sale has lost its decals. So, beware with cleaning. On this kind of prop, the "paint" is very resistant (kind of epoxy) but the decals are not so much protected. Each scratch gets the value down. Be careful also with the airworthy marks (HL stamped on small lead discs). They did add some value if they are in perfect shape. Don't try to improve them. HL is for "Hélice Légère", a prop maker wha had (IMHO) a license for the protective layer.

Regards,
PM

pascaltf
01-28-2014, 06:36 PM
Thank you for the hint.
I will clean the prop carefully. I don't want to damage him.
I specially like the copper decals on my prop and the airworthy marks that I can see on it. (that you don't see on the other prop).
That makes him a lot more special for me.




Hi,



You are right, the one on sale has lost its decals. So, beware with cleaning. On this kind of prop, the "paint" is very resistant (kind of epoxy) but the decals are not so much protected. Each scratch gets the value down. Be careful also with the airworthy marks (HL stamped on small lead discs). They did add some value if they are in perfect shape. Don't try to improve them. HL is for "Hélice Légère", a prop maker wha had (IMHO) a license for the protective layer.

Regards,
PM

pascaltf
02-08-2014, 05:28 AM
Is it the same prop used on the MS 502 and MS 505?

pmdec
02-08-2014, 03:58 PM
Hi,

I don't think so:
- MS-502 and 505 didn't use the same engine, so they had to use a different prop,
- All the Merville 825-A1 I have seen were for MS-500.

But the only way to be sure is to find their airworthy documents.

Regards,
PM

pascaltf
02-08-2014, 04:18 PM
OK, but if I take a good look at some pictures of ms-502's and ms-505's then the prop looks the same only they have not so much holes in the middle.

Hope that someone has airworthy documents 👍

pmdec
02-08-2014, 08:37 PM
Hi,

It is not possible to tell that two props are of the same serial from a picture. The only way is from markings. So,
- or you find airworthy documents (and those ones for MS-502 and 505 had to be revised ones, because your prop serial 825-A1 didn't exist when those planes made their first flight),
- or two pictures (two because the markings can't be both readable on one pic) of the prop on a 502 or 505 where you can read all the markings on it (825-A1 AND MS-50x)... Very unlikely!

But why do you want a prop of the same serial could fit a 502 or a 505? Even if this happen to be true, it would be true for the serial, but not for your very prop: The marking "MS-500" forbids to use it on a 502 or a 505, except if the prop pass an "exam" and is stamped again with valid markings for MS-502 or 505. IMHO.

Regards,
PM

pascaltf
02-09-2014, 12:33 AM
I'm glad that it is from a MS-500 (and nothing else), but I only wanted to know if it's the same kind of prop used on a 502/505.
I hope that there is a way to find out on which plane it's used (army/civilian), for how long and what"s happend with it.

pascaltf
02-15-2014, 04:27 AM
Is it normal that the hub of my prop has 10 bolts instead of 8 for a MS500?

pmdec
02-15-2014, 08:43 AM
Hi,
Yes. All serial 825-A1 and 825 I have seen had this 10 holes hub. I do think hub caracteristics are "include" in the serial drawings, at least from around 1922 in France. One more fact that forbids the use of this serial on MS-502 (see http://www.lecharpeblanche.fr/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Morane-Saulnier-MS.502-F-AZCP-0006.jpg ) or MS-505 (see http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Morane-Saulnier_MS.505_Criquet_-_Angers-Marc%C3%A9.jpg ) which have both 8 bolts hubs.

Regards,
PM

pascaltf
02-15-2014, 01:44 PM
PM, again thank you very much for your help and information. I have 2 little questions, is there a way to find out from which plane/company my prop was and do you maybey have a picture of a MS500 were you can see the hub/prop with the 10 bolts :).

pmdec
02-15-2014, 04:34 PM
Hi,

Except if you take yourself the prop out of the plane, or you have its "book" and the prop number is written in it, it is not possible to know from which one the prop came. Props are like tires on cars and are changed when necessary, except that on aircraft all repairs are filed and the spare parts numbers are memorised. Il is not even sure your prop has been fitted on a plane: they are not rare parts and many propellers on the market are spare parts never used, because it is easier to find a propeller in a no more usefull stock than to take it out of a plane.

And yes, you can see MS-500 with 10 bolts propeller. For example, two pictures on this page show one of them:
http://avions-de-la-guerre-d-algerie.over-blog.com/article-en-reserve-41640183.html
The last one ( http://img.over-blog.com/600x423/1/95/08/26/MS-500/EALA_71_Telergma_Aout_1955.jpg ) where you can even see the shape of the Merville decal and that the blade tips have a lighter colour (French habit is yellow),
And the same on the third picture ( http://a133.idata.over-blog.com/600x359/1/95/08/26/MS-500/Photos-Matra-Parmentier2-338.jpg ) but less clear.
You have to copy and paste the pics to enlarge them (and have the second lighten). They are not very clear, but the ten bolts are a sure fact and those "amateur" pics are taken "in the fields", so you can be sure they are true ones and relatively well dated.

Regards,
PM