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simonfan
09-12-2012, 09:20 AM
Can anyone tell me the correct internal diameter of the central hub hole for an Integral propeller IPC 2303 dated 1917. Also the paint (colour and type)that would have been used on the fabric tips and hub. The propeller is a 'pusher' type for a Maurice Farman aeroplane. The propeller had a clock fitted in the 1930's by an ex RFC officer and was on his wall until the 1980's. Sadly it was adapted accordingly.

simonfan
11-06-2012, 06:28 PM
From personal research I have discovered the following. A recent ebay seller of a four blade hub for a 80HP Renault engine measured the central hub hole as approx. 2.95". On the basis that the engine is the same then this should be correct for the M Farman prop. Enquiries with the Science museum who have a 80 HP aero engine in store show the prop shaft to be 7cms + or - .2mm. That is about 2.75". This I presume would allow for a cork bush or sleeve to be fitted.

The paint is still an issue. I have a genuine and original late Pup propeller, made by 'British & Colonial' and the paint is a dark green, darker than the green shown in Bob Gardeners book and used by Guy Black. Presuming age has discoloured the original, to replicate the colour I should use the Pup prop as a guide, although did the British 'Integral' company use this same green on Maurice Farman 1917 props?

Any comments or help invited.

Simon.

Dave
11-18-2012, 08:00 AM
Sorry I missed this thread earlier.

I have a pusher prop that fits an 80 HP Renault, which I can measure when I get home if you like. It's also got the original paint on the hub, which "might" be the same as what would have been used on the fabric, although that's just a guess. It's a Chauviere 2 blade, but the hub assembly should be the same. See this link for the Airco DH1 (http://www.woodenpropeller.com/DH1.html).

simonfan
11-27-2012, 06:51 PM
Dave,
Many thanks for this and what an excellent site. Sorry that I haven't responded sooner. Could you please measure the central hole diameter and let me know. I have looked at the photgraphs of your prop, a lovely prop, lovely shape. I will try to assess the paint colour from the photos. but... have you ever seen an Integral MF prop (1917) with it's original paint. It's a difficult subject because of the discolouration over the years.
Once again thank you.

P.S. I want to try to master getting photos on the forum as I have made some excellent (I think so) dummy hub plates.
Simon.

Dave
11-30-2012, 06:34 AM
I measured the center bore on the DH1 propeller with a caliper and got 2 13/16 inches. Keep in mind that the hole may actually shrink a tiny amount as the wood dries out, and the prop is almost 100 years old.

simonfan
11-30-2012, 03:42 PM
Dave,
Many thanks for the measurements. I spoke the friend who is restoring the prop centre yesterday and he has found a sample of paint in an indent in the hub. It is a similar green to your one. In the holes we originally found a green residue however we assumed this was due to a 'Copper Ease' type of staining i.e. green. I will be seeing the prop again soon to better
photograph and sample.
Simon.

Glen
10-08-2013, 09:03 PM
Hi Simon,
I know this thread is looking a little dated but I have recently picked up a Maurice Farman IPC 2303 prop in excellent condition here in Australia. The green paint on the hub looks the same as Dave's Airco DH1 prop. Mine doesnt have fabric tips though. I'm pretty sure this prop came off one of the 5 Shorthorns purchased for training by the Australian Flying Corps in 1916/17, 4 of which were onsold to a civilian operator. Some of the prop markings I have been able to identify on this website, but some are a mystery to me so I'll take some pictures and will post up to this thread in the next day or so if someone can help explain them to me. If you have any photos of your MF prop I would like to see them please.

Glen

simonfan
10-09-2013, 06:12 AM
Dear Glen,
Thank you for your post. The question over the fabric and paint is one that cannot be answered really. I am interested in many things military and am more recently looking at restoring/reproducing antique gun boxes. The fabric in these and props has a number of weaves per inch and old fabrics should be sought where possible. Look for a fine scribe line that would indicate on the blade where the fabric went to. My original Sopwith Pup prop has the original fabric and paint but has it discoloured, cracked and darkened with age. I used an acrylic paint based on what I have seen on this site and restored props and my original prop. The result is great, restored but looking good. My prop had a hole in it for a clock, as many do, now repaired. It is waiting to go up on the wall of a new extension. I will try to attach photos to show you. As for markings let me know what they are and I will try to help. Bob Gardner's books are very good, it would be worth you getting the 'Integral Propeller Co.' edition.
Simon

Dave
10-09-2013, 07:37 AM
Hi Simon,
I know this thread is looking a little dated but I have recently picked up a Maurice Farman IPC 2303 prop in excellent condition here in Australia. The green paint on the hub looks the same as Dave's Airco DH1 prop. Mine doesnt have fabric tips though. I'm pretty sure this prop came off one of the 5 Shorthorns purchased for training by the Australian Flying Corps in 1916/17, 4 of which were onsold to a civilian operator. Some of the prop markings I have been able to identify on this website, but some are a mystery to me so I'll take some pictures and will post up to this thread in the next day or so if someone can help explain them to me. If you have any photos of your MF prop I would like to see them please.

Glen

I wonder if the paint is original. I don't think I've seen original props with paint only and not fabric beneath it, although they may exist. I have seen them where the paint fills the weave to the point that fabric is not really visible.

Glen
10-09-2013, 10:22 PM
Thanks Simon and Dave for your feedback.
In regard to the fabric, I have had a good look at the blades and cant find any evidence of lines that may indicate fabric had been attached. The blades are natural wood (no paint) with the centre hub painted in green. The Prop looks the same as Dave's DH1. The baldes are also stamped with the Integral decal with a very faint "British Made" mark underneath.
Ive attached a few photos of the centre hub markings which I would appreciate some feedback on please, if you can let me know what they mean. Sorry for the poor photo quality but I can take a few more higher quality ones if a marking cant be decyphered.
Thanks, Glen

Glen
10-09-2013, 10:24 PM
Due to file size restrictions here are a couple more photos.

Glen