Help Identifying Prop

[MD53]

Hello,
My father gave me this propeller that his grandfather gave him and I am looking for additional information on it. It appears to be manufactured by Matthews Bros. Manufacturing Co. It has the following stamped on it:

MATTEWSBROS.MFG.CO
N-10203
8'4" L.H.
S.E. 5090
HS-2

On the back is number 724.

My father believes it was from a sopwith camel but can't be certain. Any info that can be provided would be very much appreciated, including when it was manufactured, where and for which aircraft. Also, any info on value would also be helpful.

Thank you in advance.

Mike
Prop1.jpg

Prop2.jpg

Prop3.jpg

[Bob Gardner]

Hello Mike,

Welcome to the forum.

Your prop is from a USN seaplane, the Curtiss HS2 and dates from late 1917 or early 1918. It is a pusher prop, mounted at the back of the aircraft. SE incidentally indicates the USN department of Steam Engineering, that initially was responsible for aircraft.

The prop is half of a four bladed prop. A similar prop was bolted at right angles to this prop on the hub of the engine.

Dave will advise on value. I'm British with little knowledge of US prices.

With kind regards,

Bob

[Dave]

Here's an info page for your prop.

There are 3 major problems with valuation of this prop:

1. It's a very commonly found prop.
2. It's only half of a 4 bladed combination.
3. It's been refinished.

Number 3 is by far the major determinant lowering its value, particularly since there are so many others around that are in original condition. The one in the page linked above sold recently for $1600. That's a "reasonable" price, but it was also in original condition with original decals, both of which substantially raise value to a knowledgeable person.

[D.Hicklin]

The true value of your prop

Granted, its a prop from the early 1900's, that in itself is very cool no doubt. Sad that it was refinnished, for patina can never be remanufactured. The true value of this prop in my opinion is the fact that it was a gift to you from your family. That being said, other than the space it occupys, you dont have any real money tied up in it.

If it were mine, I would hang it on a proper sized dowell on the wall and totally enjoy it for what it is, an air screw that is over a 100 years old. But as with anything these days, some people look at the value if its sold, once the money is in hand, you DONT have a prop anymore. As time goes by and the money is gone, Its frustrating when you wish you had a very cool vintage prop, and then it gets crazy when you wish to replace it.

Trust me on this, when I was younger, I sold my grandfathers sensenich bros prop for $45.00 to a friend, I was never able to buy it back from him at any price. Decades later, I laid out $750.00 for a very cool S&S of winnipeg for a Avro anson, I still own it as I basically considered it to be a replacement for the prop I had sold decades earlier. No regrets at all of having this prop here at the house, I also own a very nice eagle prop.

To me they are works of art, and I totally appreciate the workmanship on the older pieces of wood. That is true value!

Sincerely,
Dennis Hicklin
Seattle Washington

[MD53]

Thank you all for your replies. They are very much appreciated. Considering that my Dad/grandfather were from northern Ontario, Canada where there are a lot of bush planes, this makes a lot of sense as to why they would come into possession of this prop.

I agree that it is unfortunate that it has been restored. That said, I have no plans on selling. It will be in the family for a long time.

Thanks again!

Mike

[Dave]

There is a HS2L displayed at the Aviation Museum in Ottawa, with those propellers. I think they remained in service throughout the 20's, but most of the propellers I've seen appear to have never been mounted.

[MD53]

Thanks Dave,

Do you know how the two props would have been mounted together? Others for the Curtiss HS-2L that I have now seen either have a square notch in the back or an extra hole for a pin.

Mike

[Dave]

I think they were simply stacked on top of each other, and the notching that you see in some other Liberty engine props may turned out to have been largely unnecessary. Properly tensioned, it seems to me that the hub bolts would have prevented any shear forces from moving the blades with respect to each other unless the bolt holes became deformed.

I have seen some of these "SE 50x0" propellers with a 9th drill hole, partially drilled, that looks as if it may have been a way to lock them together at assembly. The stacking does account for the thin (under 4") hub on these to fit the standard Liberty engine hub assembly.

[MD53]

Great! Thanks again Dave. This forum has been so helpful.

Now I am looking forward to getting another prop!!

Best Regards!

Mike