Bleriot XI 2 replica prop

[Lo-Ammi]

Hi
Can anyone assist me in identifying the propeller in this image. Even though the

[Lo-Ammi]

Bleriot XI 2 prop

Let's try again.

I am building a model of a Italian military 1914 Bleriot XI 2. I need assistance in identifying the prop used on the plane that I am modelling.

The attached photos are of a prop fitted to a replica Bleriot XI 2. These Bleriots were actully built by SIT (in Italy - I think).

Thanks

[Dave]

That looks like an 8 cylinder engine, and I'd have to do a little bit of research to know what engines may have been used on the Bleriot XI. Frankly, I always thought that the XI used a 3 cylinder engine only. I have 2 propellers used on the XI, both for the 25 - 28 hp Anzani engine, and both of them have only 6 bolt holes, not 8 like on the prop you have pictured. Pictures of them are on this page, French props.

[Lo-Ammi]

The earlier and smaller versions used the 3 cylinder Ananzi engines.
The 1914 XI 2, which was a 2 seater, used 80hp Gnome engines, but the specifications vary widely - you can identify them by the "cheeks" that make space for the larger rotary engine. However, I am fairly sure that this one is actually a 9 cylinder 80hp Le Rhone engine.

[Dave]

Yeah, I see that now. That certainly makes more sense.

The propeller pictured looks like a Levasseur design, although I can't be sure. They typically have the straight leading edge and swept trailing edge.

[pmdec]

In France, when Blériot XI were in war service, props were identified by diameter and pitch in official papers. I believe identification in papers by serial number came only by the end of 1915 (and I don't know exactly when on propellers hubs, but I think earlier).

There was at minimum 7 different propellers in use on Blériot XI in 1914 (and probably more because documentation is very very scarce):

Chauvière D260, P150 for a/c with 80HP Gnome,
Régy D260, P155 for a/c with 80HP Gnome,
Régy D260, P160 for a/c with 80HP Gnome,
Chauvière and Régy D260, P156 for 2 seaters with 80HP [Brand? (140mm stroke)] engine,
Chauvière and Régy D260, P170 for 2 seaters with 80HP [Brand? (145mm stroke)] engine,

The only propellers describe by serial numbers for Blériot XI with 80HP engine in official papers I know are:
Chauvière serial 2312 (D260, P160, Blade width 250mm, hub thickness 103mm),
Chauvière serial 2314 (D260, P170, Blade width 250mm, hub thickness 103mm) for "modified" Gnome 80HP,
Régy serial 54 (D260, P160, Blade width 285mm, hub thickness 95mm).
All three as "for school" in those papers dating from 1917.

So, according to dimensions, only Chauvière serial 2314 and Régy serial 54 could be the same that ones used in 1914. For me, Chauvière serial 2314 was made later than 1914. Perhaps I have a picture of a Régy 54.

All others Blériot props in late (1917 and 1919) French and American papers are "for school" (a/c with smaller engines) because I think those aircrafts could not be used for war anymore,

Regards,
PM

@Dave: Levasseur also, for me, but there is no known Levasseur for Blériot. Only Chauvière, Ratmanoff and Régy.

[Lo-Ammi]

I found more specifications in the "The Bleriot XI at war, Windsock Datafile 108, by Gregory Alegi" which shows that Gremont props were also used with the 80HP engines.

Could the prop in the photos above be a Gremont?

[Dbahnson]

I found more specifications in the "The Bleriot XI at war, Windsock Datafile 108, by Gregory Alegi" which shows that Gremont props were also used with the 80HP engines.

Could the prop in the photos above be a Gremont?

I think it could be. I'm not as familiar with their designs, but I do think they were similar to Levasseur's. Is that a reproduction prop pictured? Both of those manufacturers typically used decals.

[Lo-Ammi]

I unfortunately have no detail regarding the prop in the photos

[pmdec]

Hi,

Yes, Grémont seems possible: need a face picture to be sure. Anyway, no decal on the prop probably means it has been refinished ... and perhaps it is not the right prop for the aircraft.
In France, knowned Grémont for Gnome 80HP were serial BE ans serial CL, both for Caudron G3.

I post two pictures of a Grémont (serial S) and an extract of Davilla and Soltan "bible".

If the aircraft has been made in Italy, I can't know anything about the prop: you have to refer to Italian military papers to know about authorized props, and I even don't know if they do exist ...

It is possible Grémont or Levasseur sold props to SIT and then they have not to be approved by French military controllers.

Regards,
PM

PS: At which scale do you want to make your model?

[Lo-Ammi]

After doing more research I have decided to use a Gremont prop, which I think is closest to the one in my photos, and because I am modelling this specific aircraft.

I am building a 1/4 scale model and using plans drawn up by the legendary model designer Dave Boddington. His 3 view plans are accurate and his design has proven to be a good flying model. I am however making comprehensive changes to much of the detail such as hinging, etc in order to make the model more scale looking.

Below is a photo of the work done so far. Next step is to cover these pieces using the silk and dope method, thereafter work will start on the fuselage.

Thank you for all the feedback.
Lo-Ammi
(from a sunny Cape Town, South Africa)

[pmdec]

Hi,

I will be very interested in knowing something about the first Grémont decal colors (the one posted on the forum is the second one and doesn't exist before 1917).

My best wishes from a not so sunny place in the middle of France ...

PM